business meeting at a forwarding agency with a sales representative of an airline

Suchergebnis

Gesamter Bestand

business meeting at a forwarding agency with a sales representative of an airline
|

starting talking business already now or not

no no do just just relax and proceed and i 'll just record the whole thing and xx

all belongs together

all goes together

for her it 's important just to have english speaking

uhu

so what ever we talk i mean we have a lunch in between er er yeah

okay okay

if we talk about er the next soccer game or e r

a h soccer soccer 's not a very good point now at the moment in holland it 's er

why not

uh hh

hey come on you have no

[S1]

er i i 'm still working on on that one with next meeting i somebody from czech republic here

mhm

as your new best friends in holland we germans go out huh

yeah

yeah well especially with ajax uh

in two weeks we lost champions league and say the the local champions lea gue er concerning er know the trophy but er er it 's not the the only thing which is le ft is actually er there are championships say for the dutch league er that 's the only thing they have

but if you can imagine we had last year

which which they will not win as well

yeah hh

that 's that 's a shame

it is

it saves us a lot of money on the xx

because

hh yeah there 's something behind

yeah

hh [S2] you like to have coffee or er something else to drink

er something coffee

okay then you know this system already i think hh

yes yes

no it 's really in a very nice flight when it came in like this ww: ww:

ooph especially what was it the the fokker er

fokker fifty

i er

er it 's usual

hɪ hɪ i hate these plane really i hate it

i know i know

it 's always especially when you 're sitting a t er under the wings erm y- you see er over the time the wings swinging and then e r some- sometime the wheels coming down and ooph

it 's always a horror for me

oh no i believe next next time i take the car or something

yeah

oh no depends on which day

you know i wou-

you can make it in four hours to amsterdam but er if you have the bad luck

well i want to i want to make a combination because er many times i 'm in belgium also so i take er i do n't know one day belgium and then continue on to luxem bourg

mhm

it takes er well

two hours two to two and a half hours from xxx to to luxembourg

to brussels we never fly

mhm oh er you maybe remember i took a a truck to amsterdam

yes i do

last year

this is a thing i never do again it 's a

i departed here er i do n't know i left the office here around five thirty i believe

yeah and that 's er xxx

and the n

the truck he promised to er well leave luxembourg around eight and i believe we left at nine thirty so i stayed there in er the airport waiting for him and then he came to the airport and picked me up okay then we left for luxembourg and then we went to the queue of the tank station oh shit we t- it took something like one half hour to to fuel the truck

okay then we left because he he need to ride via brussel

so he went via brussel to amsterdam and we stayed in brussel another hour or something

what xx

i believe i was in amsterdam a t seven o'clock in the morning

hhh

yeah okay the import 's open at nine o'clock so er no worries he was on time

yeah i was on time er for work normally i 'm

not on time because of road traffic say in e r in amsterdam but er

why that was terrible

well it was an experience

mhm

but they 're still joking around with me from hey you 're gon na take the truck to luxembourg again no

no terrible

ye ah

yeah

so you 're gon na have interviews like this the whole day together

oh we 've the who le day you and then we have another meeting

mhm

internally here and erm yeah maybe it will be from help

mhm

for this diploma so why not

yeah

it 's nothing to hide

no no er

we 'll delete all the names of course

hhh

no we had a course in amsterdam it was a e r well sort of course that you need to er strengthen your your own performance like er explore yourself or whatever and with cameras also

mhm

and this this is funny then they analyze your your meeting a nd they analyze your conversations and well you get the most

hhh

incredible questions it 's er

well that 's and that 's really tough

m hm

but then you s- you see yourself on the television also and then they 're gon na analyze how you look why you look e r like this and er er well

i i think i did this

that 's that 's that 's str ange

yeah

i did this too

also because you 're of the opinion you know if you talk something you have a total different imagine from okay er mine expression was like this but if you look in the television it 's totally different

yeah it 's completely different yeah

it 's

you made it quite harmless and at the end of the day you dɪʃ dɪʃ dɪʃ somebody okay

ye ah

yeah yeah that 's the way it is zweiter

how long been a german cup

yeah we have always this tournament e r each year and as you can see

mhm

luxembourg is e r

quite successful

first pla ce

it was a luxer goal keeper and psh but psh then [org1] should not know hh half of the national team here is playing hh yeah

a h o h er you stole half the team yeah no

yes we have this er tournament e r every year

m hm

some where in germany sometimes here in luxembourg hhh and e r we 're always invited each branch from from germany which er ten branches from [org1] do it e rm erm this year it will be hh now two thousand three it was in luxembourg and e r this year it will be in kassel

mhm

so it 's always going around yeah and then that 's a good e r scenario to meet each other und er in average one thousand three hundred one thousand six hundred people are coming

yeah

wo w

and the whole [org1] germany organization some from overseas

m hm

from luxembourg from basel yeah

mhm

so on the saturday you have the tournament e r and soccer and in the evening you have this big party

because y-

o h o h

yeah and then

because i 'm organizing or see in this last three four years not any more but trying to do it again with [org2] and er it was it started actually as a sort of joke you know erm i worked at that time for [org3] airlines and erm in atlanta i got into the selection of the of their soccer team also so each year we went to atlanta and play soccer in a tournament there and then i met er a person from the [org4] and he say hey er let 's do it together in amsterdam so okay that was something like four years ago er that was our last tournament but be fore that we did organize it for five six years in a row and it was very nice

and if you can imagine that we er of second tournament we have fifty-two teams coming from all around the world like from brazil ma lta e r or italy fra nce e r just name it every where and it was very ni- but it 's indoor this is outdoor or

this is outdoor that 's always the summer in june

yeah

uhu we ch- we choosed at that time especially for indoor why because er it was actually an interline tournament that means that a ll the airlines which had a team just came over and if you want to come er over er which is for those people always on xx standby tickets the n it 's better to have it in january which we always did in that period and also the the time of the year january we choose is particular because o f you know weather a nd

mhm

all kinds of thing entered in purpose we kept it indoor

outdoor it 's very

yeah but you can do it in january outdoors not in not in netherlands but e r

mhm yeah

i know i know that 's that 's the major

e r

that 's the major problem er [S1] but er yeah

yeah hh just go somewhere else

uhu

yeah

but now now for example i 'm on the twenty-sixth of march e r i 'm organizing a er one one one game

m hm

and that 's against er lucky ajax and then i made a a selection but i 'm still making it er approximate of our top fifteen agents and i 'm really s- screening those people from hey look

can you play soccer otherwise we do n't er put them into the team because er

all those people they can play pretty well of course because they li ke people like [lastname1] you know e r

mhm

maybe you know [firstname2] [lastname2]

yeah

er [firstname3] [lastname3] e r

hm not bad

all fa- famous old dutch players and you play against them

oh- oh

but suppose you have a

you have a team

you can run faster but they have much mo re tech nique with the ball yeah

yes they do n't run you know er

mhm they play

they just play around and you run

they they do it like chess

no even you know the

but

maybe you know him it 's a very old player i believe he is now around fifty- fifty-three or something like that

mhm

or even older he 's sh- [firstname4] [lastname4] he used to be a very good er player in ajax but this guy well he 's he 's very old he 's only walking around a little

mhm

yeah

you know but still the technical skill he has i mean this is this is good you know

it is

yeah not too bad

not too bad

shall we start

here we go

yes we start er er directly with [S3] e r as he 's e r ex pect another visitor he will also not join for lunch

yeah

okay

yeah so er

get something

makes makes more sense

yeah

yeah first of all of course again many thanks for this nice and brilliant year of last year of course the two thousand and three i want to thank you all of you of course of the turnover which you er performed already er m i wanted to take some statistics which i did actually last year

mhm

bu t the problem is we did n't finish yet the whole year so i 'm waiting on the last part

mhm

yeah

cos i can give you some details but ple ase do n't have a look at the rest a nd just to get you an idea always a mess with papers

looks like my desk

er maybe i took it separate i give you you can see as the last let me see i made this in very early in the morning

but that 's a good one let me have look to it let let me have look to it okay [org5] above [org6] and [org7] that 's already good

okay

so my friend [org6] a hundred three tons one hundred o- tons from us

no okay but what

il y a un produit avec des assiettes

haeh

okay but how come

e r ce pour le e r lunch

pour le [org1] xxxx

oui c'est aussi ici

ce lunch

je le met dans la dans la cuisine

oui oui cuisine

cuisine

er what i just want to let you know is er you know that you actually the last month was not very good in mine opinion because well maybe we struggle you know with capacities and er all kinds of things like that we had the same problems but just to let you know er well for example this was the november month that er here you are on number one but this all has to do of course also with the beaujolais

mhm

so the turnover automatically i s in tonnage is pretty high automatically gives you well very high yield also which is an average of three point four three

xxx xxxxx

c'est ferme

sorry

xxxxxxxx

mhm

and what you 're seeing here is actually all the beaujolais people

yeah

i 'm always open in this e r

but you know this is [org8]

not us

yes i know but well we count you in of course

sure

as a total picture so that 's why but what i do e r when we got the december month finished i will send to an overall statistical er perfor mance

mhm

and i believe it 's always good to see for you to have well maybe a motivation again for hey look we can do better this or

yeah

whateve r this is too much to [org2] of er whatever you can analyze yourself

and then er i believe it 's a good picture to this year to this year

yeah absolutely we 're happy about that

er okay

yeah what is your feeling where are is is [org5] er [org1] posed together ranking in e r within [org2] europe

what personally the feeling concerning that

yeah

well

sure we 're not we 're not number one this year i would say er

actually to tell you really the true well notice of this feeling er personally i do n't have at the moment

you kno w if you look er in working relationship which we have together with [org2] you know there is not a lot of things to com pare to see hey er this would be in im portance or whatever

yeah

so i can not really say for me w- e r what is the difference

mhm

i could say personally that 's my opinion the now now in your internal picture because you mentioned er m in you r email to me that some difference betwee n some regions maybe it 's better to explain me first what what what happened in this scenario

hhh erm we will do this in in in the second er round when we talk with [S6] just er for this point e r important is we are heading towards a a splitting of department

m hm

e r the far east and middle east department will be splitted into two departments this should have done normally already to the first of january

mhm

is now postponed to the first of april

mhm

so there will be a middle east department middle east south asia which is india

mhm

at the end of the day which er [firstname5] [lastname5] will run

mhm

yeah and er [S3] and [firstname6] will be his sales staff for this area

mhm

and there will be a far east department headed by myself and therefore we had now

mhm

all the transitions already done for example as you know [S3] handled middle east plus bangkok taipei and er singapore bangkok taipei and singapore are now transferred to [S7] to [S9]

m hm

ja and that 's also why we have the splitting on the china desk [firstname7] is taking care only for mainland china

mhm

yeah and [S7] only for shanghai

aha

and hongkong bangkok taipei

[S7] what to day will present us as well mainland china as [firstname7] has a d- day of holidays today

mhm

yeah but [S3] is now in charge for the middle east together with [firstname5] who is also on holidays er no he 's on business trip he 'll come later this this afternoon

he will come today

yeah so e rm i 'm stepping more and more out of the middle east

mhm

so e rm if you have something for dubai he 's your partner

is the right person then okay

yeah

hey er just to explain you more about [org2] it 's er last year it was a well let 's say a struggle year er our performance was okay if you look to the total performance and i 'm talking in er load factors is more er e r well an average between the ninety and the ninety-two tons load factor and this is cumulalative back to january so it 's still a pretty high performance even though you can see especially in the last year tha t well yield wise it 's a tremendous cutdown if you compare well you know you guys know especially also that er er the rates are going down tremendously and er well this this was a tough part of the year so especially if you know maybe the hongkong people they 're very keen to keep levels up to a scenario which is actually not market-conform any more so in that way we are struggling a lot things you know er well to get those aggressive rates into the market you can notice also wi th with you guys because last half year er from the other year the two thousand and three er m well i lowered your rate in that concern to get you more car- mar- mar- market-conform rate to maybe attract some more business er m in that se nse in the beginning i noticed your turnover some dubai even but there was more e r more i believe overflow dubai if i say it correct from your s- from your side

e r dubai it 's dubai it 's always difficult er m

cos e r especially end of the year we 're operating a lot of of e r own charter flights but i think i 've explained you that already during some phone conversations

mhm

and er that 's basic ally what i can give away is overflow cargo from all these charter flights we had up to up to six charter flights a week

mhm

so er m i- it makes it difficult to give e r some cargo away if er you have to fill the xxx

uhu but those those rates yeah were they competitive enough or say strong enough for you to use

not any more

not any more okay

we are now in a different well time zone again

again it 's a again it 's a different thing cos you know in e r especially er beginning of the year er m well the capacity is still there

mhm

and e r the cargo is gone cos the production is is er going tremendously down during e r christmas new year 's eve xx

and how 's how 's the situation now is the the production is not er

well

well optimal at the moment is it because of the year beginning

let 's say i still have the production

mhm

but e r to be very honest the current rates we 're buying to dubai is forty-five cents

mhm

on actual weight

on actual weight yeah

now now we 're sitting around hear it again er you know and to come up and i 'm always open in this you know that er try to get maybe this this level up again or down again er concerning the rate hh what what would be necessary to come up or that we do it the other way around i will give you some indication but e rm i give you a nice offer say let 's say for the first half year e r as a kick - off fo r this six months you know especially i really do n't know what 's gon na happen er m

who knows

nobo dy does but

also now for us this year is gon na be a well we need to be very successful this year because as you maybe know that we are opening our doors again in expansion e r especially in europe so for us it 's an additional capacity we needs to ful fil as i told you last year er that we 're gon na open the german office

mhm

e r about germany er [org2] is so particular e r maybe the strange word is i s e r how can i say it in a nice decent english word they are so er you know particularly camouflaging er themselves to say which destination it is gon na be camouflage is maybe not the correct word but they are really not opening yet but i can say it it 's gon na be munich a nd this this is the destination which we 're gon na open er m we try to had this in as from i believe so from june or either july they promised us to have it earlier but this all has to do er because of the turnover and new plane which actually is already in but they 're now already building up this into the well the cargo conversion which we need to have to fly it of course

mhm

and this is e r well they promised us again but we are particular i 'm dutch you know we always say first see and then

er we see it 's a really active year online and then er well belie ve we belie ve it 's coming around july june around that deadline well again if we have this additional capacity then i believe it 's also for you quite interesting maybe what we tal- e r well last year we discussed a little also concerning this that either well you could choose that port either you could choose the amsterdam site

well in that sense we have enough capacity to offer but i believe if you look to the market the n well it 's too much capacity

it is

in that term we need to agree something and maybe something er very attractive so in that sense i want to make you an offer a nd i only want to get some hints from you from okay what would be an interesting level from er an idea maybe from okay this this is a thing that we maybe have

mhm

regular loads or say let 's say on a weekly basis okay and maybe maybe this is a point of view

my er the- there would be my question towards er [S3] have you ever explained to to [S2] the way the business works this er espec ially [org5] business

yeah i think we have discussed and about it but but it 's always difficult to judge you can you know from from one day on on the other there might be a booking popping up for one thousand cubic metres

mhm

that 's e r always a little bit depending especially beginning of the month they have problems e r to obtain the necessary invoices from [org9] xx usually let 's say between the first and the fifth of each month we have very low production of cargo er m

sta- start a little bit different we have just down the hill [org10] as distribution center for [org9]

mhm

so all [org9] cargo is coming in to here into in the [org11] part hhh in the meantime er m they 're sitting on the cargo

mhm

but then they get the invoices from [org9] and then the cargo is ready to move from that day on normally within two days the cargo has to be in dubai workdays three four days sometimes you never can xx

mhm

but you never know when it 's popping up you never know

just wait for the plane er m how much it is

mhm

it can be one hundred cube metres it can be e r like this week one thousand four hundred cube metres

mhm

yesterday afternoon one thousand four hundred cube metres a re ready to go

mhm

erm er we start e r we call for full charters

mhm

yeah with this erm volume amount as you know yeah and e rm then we look what what possibilities do we have

mhm

yeah so we have tried at the beginning with er several carriers also i think with you to have allocations for pallets on this flight so eight on that flight e r but it it it is not working out it 's absolutely not working out

that 's no- it 's quite e r xx

i- in addition comes what what [S3] has mentioned then as well the dis crepancy between the beginning of the month towards the end of the month

m hm

that 's er the tricky part yeah

okay but then

i e r i understand e r

it 's it 's it would always y- would always be on ad hoc it would always be on ad hoc

mhm

we can not fix something regu lar

uhu uhu

yeah

but then maybe you know what we did like last year we give you a phone call in that kind of sense and then we say hey okay [S3]

yeah

mhm

maybe you have something maybe you do n't but i thi nk we need to agree something you know in on the rates in advantage what what would be the hint from your side what would be er what would be necessary would it be necessary to have only pallet rates kilo rates o r whatever e r

well what [S1] said already the current buying scenario is that we are buying forty-five cents

yeah

and we have er we get charged on actual weight

yes

mhm

so meaning er does n't matter if the uld er the q seven has two thousand or three thousand kilos we got charged for the actual weight per uld

mhm

and er per manifest let 's say i would say

uhu

the cargo will be only come in built-up units up units

it will always pre-built

okay

the [org10] is is is we deliver u- empty ulds they build up q sevens q sixes whatever and we deliver only built-up cargo

xxx do you know xx

okay okay what what i i gon na do [S3] i give you an offer i make this on email e r

please

tomo rrow is wednes day yeah

mhm

so i will make you an offer well together with the conversations which i 'm gon na have here today and make more offers of course

mhm

but in that sense i 'm i make you an offer and well

are you

i know this guideline which you just mentioned this is more or less the well the the level of rates which is at the moment

are you serving some some more destinations e r in the middle east

even if

again

er do you have some more destinations in the middle east or it 's purely dubai

yes i promised you actually i 've sorry

still not get it

i 've i for got

i forgot and e r you 're rec ording this now

i forgot last year actually to mention it yes we we have a lot of e r destinations within the middle east e r

send me send me just a list

yes

with destinations you can offer what kind of services you have

yes

a nd

it 's all to l- to let you know now immediately it 's a ll of course it 's a trucking connection e r

from du bai

from our dubai station

okay

but it it 's a very good f- to to give you a lot of examples we we had last time we have a lot of dama l shipments even riad o r just name all the destinations we we had those also and e r i believe the service which we can offer there is oh it 's quite good and er well an- anyway i make you an a total summamary of destinations

i need wha- what i need is a list of destinations what kind of servi ce and er then the trucks and the transit yeah that would

even even with hours a nd the trucking company phone numbers

whatever

exactly that 's what i need

and i 'm making a whole summamary of this

yeah

and then i i can come back to you to see okay er er where we are in need and e r what

yeah

what conditions we will need

coming back to dubai er m another question 's you 're interested is also to make charter flights

mhm

is this an option

we yes

for you

especially er now to tell you also something as we 're gon na have again a new plane now we have in totally four but the fifth one is shortly to come also e r we are working out a corridor system so in other words it means that we quickly x ag gressively ha- ha ve big lots park lots or total planes whatever immediately e r can offer this into the market so for example if you ha ve i do n't know

mhm

er doha we have many qu- requests to doha for example like eighty tons ninety tons whatever

ah that 's already the usual ones

then we can corridor this this kind of possibility

mhm

to those customers and this especially e r starting from this year we 're gon na well more aggressively opening this kind of concept

mhm

i will let you know something about this also er m you know the strange thing within [org2] it 's a f- it 's a policy they say tha t for each destination which you want to fly as a [org2] one of us needs to be send over to this destination a nd arrange everything like the handli ng covering all the the necessary action which is necessary to operate this plane

yeah

but the point is we ha ve such a big list that we are now actually cutting

destinations like this because we are not only looking to the middle east because we say e r amsterdam you fly maybe you know er maybe italy i do n't know this is maybe an er a good corridor destination or say switzerland whatever you know the roughly in a i- i- in a in a range for in a particular i do n't know fifteen to two thousand miles or something something like that we make corridor destinations all the way up to hongkong on the route you fly

mhm

then [org2] say this is their policy well you need to have one [org2] people send over first to arrange all those things and this is what we are doing now already so a lot of people from hong kong they 're really flying themselves crazy

to all ki nds of destinations

hey you need somebody for this

no but it 's wei rd you know they say they only need to have a chat you know y- you could pick up the phone i i can pick up the phone with italy and say hey

yeah

you want to have a contract together with with us and we make a a handling contract whatever it 's it 's so quite easy no they say you need to be live active in this er particular destination and be lieve me we had something i i do n't know we had thirty-eight destinations or something which we picked up i n this who le route and then we heard this policy it 's oh i 'll call you er w:ff w:ff

we took out a lot of of those destinations

but this is particular the chine se they they they they 're really very put everything in in in books manuals

mhm

but it 's a it 's a good thing you you coordinate in this matter but er

okay but that 's i let you know also

please

and then e r

well in c- just in in case we are in need of let 's say a full flight

[S1] x

e r just to trust it to you and say okay then and dann we would have sufficient cargo to operate a full flight with you e r these are the conditions we can e r apply o r whatever then e r we can see case by case

yeah yeah okay

as indication for er dubai full charter out of amsterdam seven four seven

mhm

mhm what the co st

we p ay e r for time being er y- what do you think is the price

it 's a tough question but er i belie ve let 's say two hundred thirty thousand

o kay

amster dam dubai

yeah

sixty thousand a lot

six ty okay then e r yeah

that you know which area we 're talking about yeah

no but

i thought you 're talking about a round-trip price e r amsterdam dubai hongkong e r amsterdam

two hundred thirty thousand pf

no actually we we are quite you know er

in the peak season

in prices concerning this chartering we never did actually in a separate charter for this but then a gain it 's it 's something new for also but

yeah

i 'm well surprised but actually also not surprised because if you look to those sixty thousand well it 's mo re

i mean er just think about

market-con form the price if you to look to the kilo rate in total

and look and look back e r just to the amsterdam airport

m hm

which far east carriers all are based there and have empty flights going back and they rather this will take one day out o f of the operations

uhu

fly to middle east for this one

mhm

and fill the next day 's flight

uhu

yeah

and if you look in that kind of price you kno w is is is this based on each day you see hh does it matter

this is based on each day mo re or less whenever okay we have to see it then when when we have enough cargo we would like this one thousand four hundred cube meters

yeah

we ask several carriers

mhm

and then we get from several carriers the feedback yeah it 's not only one carrier it 's er carriers in luxembourg it 's carriers in amsterdam

mhm

ja and it 's carriers in frankfurt and they say how they have the availability or not or we can or we can not

mhm

yeah

yeah for this and this price but the market is er decreasing

even even we get requests from the carriers coming to us saying hey do you want to operate a flight

yeah

mhm

so it 's e r it 's easy

mhm

best example is e r [org12] and and [org13] whenever they have a free quotation yeah they just give us a call e r and say i have in two days a flight available do you want yes no

mhm

yeah

but this in this scenario i want to have [org2] also you know that our people they need to be well calling you that you get crazy of us e r

[S3] no no but er in that sense they they they need to have you know e r a call

e specially once once a week or maybe twice a week an d

mhm

just to see okay well is there any load available whatever and then er well we can build up anything concerning a better deal o r just name it in that sense but again i 'm i 'm not surprised about you r your price you know sometimes what we do i s to let you know our monday flight is quite weak

er m in in holland er m our monday flight sometimes we try to e r delay it in terms if it 's possible commercialwise why because there 's a tremendous market with e r plants flowers to dubai in that sense e r we build up even the flower option not the agents but the shippers and with those shippers which we know their agents they together try to succeed to fill the flight and actually that 's a sort of xx chartering actually also their flight and just to know well lately it works out pretty good but then e r well it 's the timing because cut-off for flowers on a monday is is not a good day

tuesday

suppose it was a tues day that 's a brilliant day

yeah yes

this this is also a scenario er to let you know also e r we are working out to have a flight on this tu esday becau se a monday well i believe everywhere in europe maybe certain routes not but i t 's it 's it 's a weak weak day of course e r to operate this kind of flight if you want to ful fil to get it full

yeah

yeah it 's it 's difficult

so we are really looking desperately to have this flight on monday go into the tuesday but this is very tough especially with swippal with slots and whatever it 's it 's a tough decision

calling e r

a tough thing to get arranged

what do you think if you could arrange it w- how long would it take to put on tuesdays cos later for the hongkong discussion we will talk about the monday flight hh hh so it would be important to have the monday flight

mhm okay

so be careful what you 're saying now

yah yah okay okay

always be careful what i 'm saying but er

okay well recap erm i will give you a good hopefully a very good offer and e r of course i give you the e r

in land or say the er the smooth e r

the distribution to the middle east and that 's basically what i need

okay i give you all the details [S3] it 's er well i got a total list from from dubai and we just renewed the whole list because we changed ou r trucking partner actually in dubai to a new one and this this one is very good

with whom with whom you 're working with

er i do n't know i forgot the name

[org14]

but before n o

i do n't believe so no because why we changed it we had some some problems e r something like i do n't know a year ago and this trucking company when we booked something okay we ordered i do n't know six seven eight trucks and then they show up with only four and the next day another four that er well this this is not working properly of course

hhh

mhm

but this is pretty normal in dubai

ye s but you know especially now because we a re now with this new trucking company they want to perform them- -self very good because they want to see hey we are better than this than this other company and e r

with whom are you working now

again e r [S1]

with whom which trucking company you 're working

i do n't i do n't know but i i 'll let you know the name of it we just had i believe it was in december we changed this whole schedule we added some destinations

mhm

e r better price s

so you have as well that means you you can offer as well a a bonded trucking from dubai to riad and jiddah

yes i believe so yes but i i need to check because i have now a total summamary of a ll the destinations inclu ding what is necessary

mhm

you know er suppose it is not bonded or it is bonded whatever i can tell you immediately it 's it 's just

yeah because i need to know the conditions because especially saudi arabia it 's pretty difficult hh cos i know in in let 's say in riad and jiddah they have no free zone available

mhm

even even

yeah

that means usually the custom clearance needs to be done at the border already or already in dubai

mhm

er which is making it pretty difficult for the for the consignees to obtain the cargo a nd it 's as well higher costs involved

yeah

and the only free zone in saudi arabia is in damal

even even i can tell you now necessary documentatio n and what all all kinds of details

okay

it 's it i will explain to you it 's a just a i make a copy of what we have here

no but once i have that i can have a look through and then e r

uhu

mi ght become might become more of interest

cos last last time we had a very big shipment to i believe it was damal and there was something also with with bonded but actually what we did we we trucked it directly actually to the consignee

yeah

but the problem was he had no bonded warehouse xx but then we had some people also by this company and they arranged at the border that they already could clear it and then they could continue the whole thing

yeah but this is always a a cost factor

yeah okay but well

cos if you if you can clear in a free zone e r you 're m- maybe a lot of companies are duty exemptors so they have to clear in the free zone

mhm

e r if they do clear their cargo at the border they might to have er to pay duties e r whatsoever e r which is quite expensive in saudi arabia

uhu

so i need definitely with this offer i will need all conditions all possibilities you 're offering there

you will you will get it definitely you will get a ll

that 's e r

necessary information which you wanted about this you you will get it

in case i have additional questions i will let you know anyway

no but er well we we definitely noticed this because on purpose we kept it a little quiet let 's say it like that because we wanted to so rt out first all kinds of problems struggle problems from we ll let 's suppose you you book something and afterwards we need to explain to you yeah because it 's this e r blah blah blah er hh but on purpose we did this and then our guy er say in dubai e r well he sorted out a ll those kind of details and he made a big summamary out of it so we now know exactly to each destination which we could offer er which is e r first of all it 's the standard trucks which we could offer besides that we can offer also within that region more destination but it is on ad hoc

yeah

it me ans that we can make the request but it 's not in this list we can of course make the request but we need to ask first to ou r person in dubai who 's in charge of that and try to find out from oka y er possibilities er could it be done er whatever

okay

because well you know riad i riad from out of dubai it takes three days er special documentations and all kinds of well this this kind of things you get with all kinds of destinations like that

i know

okay no that 's fine with me

mhm

and i 'm waiting your xx

okay you maybe have some more questions e r [S3]

no basically my major questions are answered i 'm just waiting your proposal and then e r we can continue

okay

okay for next year you guys you 're gon na come to amsterdam huh because now this year

we have to yeah

well this year er two thousand and three you missed

yeah

the night of the promise [S3]

you missed it

and it 's a

that was not that was not my fault

no i

you know work is always first of course but er you know this year it was er was okay it was er

m hm

nice we ha d er m this band called i 'm so terrible in names yeah no t -xs inxs

yeah

this this was a pretty good er that 's i believe your style er

yeah i know this yeah yeah

m hm

no i heard some some things about should have been xxx

and i make you more attractive we pay you again er say the hotel so er

hh that was not the reason er i have not joined or something it was really

we can x

mhm

with all this transitions we are we are facing it 's a lot lot more work than we expected

mhm

to split something which e r since thirty years belongs to gether and er also same time

mhm

hh especially on [S3] 's side there was a lot of e r issues to take me up and er er no real backup scenarios i mean

mhm

there 's also this you have to remember [firstname6] had to learn a lot of things and so on and this was es- especially the problem

m hm

and we had a lot of people then on traveling as well

but the fir- er the the first time you were there [S3] we only had fifteen people something like that

yeah it was not so ma ny

or ten or twelve something like that not not x now

was it was very small bus i think it was twelve people in side

yeah

now to give you an i mpression we had around thirty people but we did that also the other way around at that time you you you went along with us er we took

yeah

a dinner at the arena er the er

yeah exactly

the place itself and now we took it in in it er in front of it why because you know the road

mhm

was terrible and we qu- in stalled some bears into the bus

hhh

and this er well it 's it 's a better way doing that

in in that kind of way

but er you 're again invited i 'll let you know in ti me

but er again you know

no worries er work is always first i know it 's er

it 's something er

yeah be cause

just a appreciation from our side that you a re

always welcome and also

it 's er nice way of appreci ation after xx and it 's a good idea to do it that way

mhm

yeah so er m

mhm

and also er now with the appreciations i promise you to come over again you know for a soccer game but i 've been thinking during the flight to amsterdam or from er from amsterdam er to luxembourg ajax does n't have that many games any more

so er

hh e r if you 're still open for this i can choose well an er a competition game if you prefer and then i do n't know it 's it 's on a sunday you come over and then e r i do n't know e r y ou all together you come over and then we go to this game but well if you 're still open for this kind of thing i know er e r we work a lot er e r a nd we appreciate you know our spare times with the families but i believe you know this er this is just er separate besides the businesswise talks or whatever that you come over in that er that way you know we as friends hopefully you you you can er well come over and e r have er see an good game of ajax er i i i let you know

but a good game and ajax in one sentence that 's another story yeah

yeah that 's true

that 's er this this is the only game i can invite you because well it 's it 's it 's the part which we

yeah

absolutely yeah

have you know our package and whatever

yeah

yeah soccer is more your

i 'll see

let 's see

part

or we do it the other way around i come to you and you invite me for i do n't know what kind of game

a luxembourgish

eintracht trier

trier

now we 're also thinking about some things and e r if we know we will come back to you for sure yeah and surely whenever somebody is interested and there 's time to come definitely

mhm okay

yeah thanks for this invitations

okay

yeah hhh

okay erm

i have to see

ex actly

for my second meeting

er m okay then if you can do me a favor and tell to the guys i will call [S6] now

goes it okay

and er m ask them to be down stairs in twenty minutes

to all the others

yeah for the lunch

okey-doke

yeah

no problemo

okay i will call [S6] in the meantime

well [S2]

thank you [S3]

well thank you er we stay in touch

yes i will definitely give you a ring on the phone

yeah and let me know about all this what we have discuss ed

and i will s- start

start also next meeting i will start to call you er [S3]

yeah currently we have er we have plenty of cargo right on the line for you so i would not be waiting

okay

yeah

might be worth it

okay

okay [S2]

i see you

see you then bye-bye

bye you want some more coffee [S1]

er always but i can do it myself thanks

yeah

no worries relax enjoy

i 'm re laxed

you know f- f-

do n't you have a

feel home

now [S1] er do n't you have a very good soccer player within er [org5]

hhh import department

import

the who le te am of import

which which xx

really real- a good player

but er

like er if he plays in the first league or something o r

ooph first league in luxembourg i mean e r

no i really do n't know but erm

xx national

i you can ask this or i can ask to [firstname8]

m hm

branch manager here because er he 's very much he 's the senior player already and and he 's very much involved in this e r soccer set-up

mhm

yeah so

why why i 'm asking you know as you kn- as er what i told you that the twenty-sixth of march

yeah

we i make this selection of this team

yeah

and we play against this er lucky ajax at well he maybe join

yeah it might be somebody as pers- i i personally do n't know i mean er

mhm

i 'm sure xx or [firstname8] himself but er this is then the the old age forty- five plus

mhm

to tell t-

but they would be very interested

to tell you what i make as a select ion so far

yeah

i have two people of [org7]

mhm

in amsterdam e r one of [org15]

mhm

e r one of [org16]

mhm

e r myself

mhm

e r e r a a coach

m hm

i assigned say for for this particular this team

mhm

and the n i have one guy from belgium which is called [org17]

mhm

er m an other fro m which is a a local agent say in amsterdam which is called [org18] one person

but all those players which i selected they all play in the first league on top of it er you have say the

mhm

the well the head league which is actually

yeah

countrywise so they are pretty pretty high in skill say concerning the soccers

mhm

so in that way we try to get a good selection well you know have a good team

yeah what what what you can do is e rm erm for surely it will not be me erm you can send me what you plan and when and i will give it to [firstname8] and to [firstname9]

o kay

and they can check with their e r teams with the normal soccer players from us

mhm

who might have been interest and e r who is er

yeah

also would be able to to to take this e r one

maybe

i maybe i maybe can help him on a expense say of an hotel whatever

ja ja

but he he needs to come over by himself

yeah yeah yeah yeah i know erm no worries about that one

yeah

but it it 's

but erm

i believe the day is not very good but because the twenty- sixth is on a friday and well friday is you know particully in our branch it 's er it 's a heavy day but

yeah

you know it it all has to do with this ajax team because they say

ac cept it

we only play on this day

yeah

then forget it

other wise they will not accept it

yes absolute ly abso lute ly

yeah hm but er well it 's good

yeah

and we make some nice pictures and whatever you know er

absolutely well so

i 'm [S2] [org2] amsterdam

i know we saw us already

mhm

i think so

yeah

but he 's very bad at names

i think so

okay

xx x very xxx

where you want to sit there

i 'm

wherever

i will go erm on this side erm der [S7] hatte war eigentlich jetzt auf dem weg den hab ich jetzt

kurz abgeraeumt

ja wir haben dann eh das

ich hab ge sagt er soll ich ruf ihn an

ja wir haben jetzt erst das lunch dann xxx und dann naja xxxx

thank you very much

yeah hh erm [S6] is er in charge for our global accounts in charge for

xxxx

whatever i do n't want to do yeah she 's er

hh directly working with me we sit in the same office for time being yeah and e r also she will stay within the far east team when er when we 've done the cha- the changes and will not be on the normal sales desk so not like [S7] for this and that she will be er jumper for everything yeah

mhm

and er special things

mhm

yeah so and she 's always my backup

mhm

so if i 'm not in she 's the one to talk to

of course

o kay

yeah that 's er

yeah

maybe the more more important point so

she 's reading my mails she 's sometim-

no it 's very it 's very im- well it 's very very important to have

e r it 's good to have her and yeah yeah yeah

a person like you e r behind you of course

absolutely

because well if you have this trust relationship together we ll the the the strength would be very important to to work out this kind of way for both of you this is this is very interesting of course

yeah

yeah we 're working already since er ooph eight years nine years together

yeah for sure

hm since i was you trainee hhh

yeah so

he was my trainee

time has changed

mhm

yeah but i trained him apparently too well so

but

now he 's my boss

hhh no w the the benefit is e r really [S6] and i 'm we work in eighty ninety per cent

m hm

of things the same way

mhm

and you can imagine yourself

yeah

trustworthy i can leave whenever from one second she will do the way i would do it

mhm

and this is something which you have rarely in this in this way

yeah

m hm

but erm yeah that 's her role so a little bit

m hm

with out anything going around with a clear definition but er

yeah

hhh quite interesting i would say

well i-

er it 's so important nowadays you know do you have this kind of opportunity to have this backup you know especial ly

mhm

we had this problem e r i tell you honestly with [org2] in the beginning

yeah

tha t when we start up o ur office we already had two flights but only two people and e r well you did actually everything and then we start to expand ourselves but you did it by yourselves but the point was i never could look around say do e r do i do everything okay this this is

m hm

yeah well it 's not a good scenario and by this if you had this opportunity to work together it will give you more strength to do d- so and it 's er well it 's good because she maybe can explain to you for hey [S1] you 're doing things like this maybe wrong

no but it gives you the motivation no er as a as an

no just to be fair

er [S2] now is the time to stop because otherwise i have a problems here yeah so no but i fully agree that e r

yeah xx

no but er it it 's a good thing

that 's the way it is

e rm shall [S7] come down for lun- you want to make first the lunch o r how you

on the agenda i put the lunch first

yeah

that everybody can join and then afterwards [S7]

okay

but if they want to change upstairs i did n't erm for me it 's equal

er m because [S8] and [S9] will not come for lunch first of all they will come then later on that is that what [S7] told me

aha yeah okay i will talk to them yeah okay hhh okay let 's let 's first go to the general issues yeah and then i give a call upstairs er

yes maybe i can ask you the question from

sure

are there any general issues or er point of vie ws from the company side from from your side say concerning [org2] are there things like from e r i do n't know maybe accounting issues e r overall general issues y- you maybe know something about [org2] to to to come up from hey look this is maybe a thing which we need to do better or e r i do n't know more sales visits er just name it you maybe have er ideas thoughts

i might say it like that so far when i was working befor- with you because i had also a certain time the backup of [firstname6] when she was taking care about the hongkong trophy hh i had er the se big ni ce er shipment mainly you reminded it 's wa- from portugal was this very

i do n't know

it 's it was a dense cargo but it was not very nice to build up and so on

hh oh that this this is the thing i remember

and

mhm and i thought

it was in august

august yeah

august end of august i was er dealing with [firstname10] about that

hh and this this i remembered

and so far it was working very well i did n't did n't had any problems

it was this e r eleven lower deck or something like this shipment er nightmare shipment

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah correct

because you could not er build it up on main deck because it was too heavy

mhm

o h you know at that time i t- i t- i traveled also a lot and er i was not really in the office at that time and i heard something betwee n er concerning this er from portugal whatever but what i understood there was a a mixture of a mix - up o f of rates which they give to you i belie ve and say to somebody else but i do n't know who the other was i really do n't know but i can find out more details if you prefer to hear it still in that kind of particular case

i think you took it over er but erm after that i did n't had any problems actually because i had a erm i had a

the problems was never with [org2] side

a certain number

there wa- there was

i had a certain number for your quotation which you gave me on this time

yeah yeah there there was was no hiccups e r with e r the the part from [org2]

in that way it was

mhm

it was in ternal with [org1]

but from the

okay that was something else

but ov- overall none of us got it what i believe we did n't either also got it er i believe your side you did n't get it so in that sense e r it 's nothing particular t- to tell you something

yeah

suppose we we get inquiries e r sometimes that happens we get the same inquiries which you ha ve a nd we get them from out of germany belgium france whatever n- just name it

sure

we always and i tell you this honestly always do the same rate always why because we want to avoid this kind of conflict

mhm

absolutely

and this this is really we 'd erm put my hands into the fire for it this is the the scenario we only work becau se we want to make no conflicts and believe me this is the thing [org2] always does and we try to avoid always this kind of things

that 's that 's er that 's er normal but you never know what the o ri gins er in these country are then in the end are offering let 's say they are coming to you request a shipment for a special shipment

mhm

you give the same rate like you gave it to us but they say erm e r okay if i get this shipment maybe i can e r pressure them down to

mhm

er that i get a better rate and then they 're offering something lower and then you have already the hiccup as a as a origin so

mhm

yeah that 's something which we can not help of course if if they lower if if they

sure

sure that 's

put i do n't know their commission lower or thei r whatever they put lower themselves well this this is a thing which is a well a thing which we can not control

sure

but you know why why we do this particular with [org2] and i say again we we we really do n't do this why w- we have learned you know if you look to a particular business in holland you have the flower and the plants business hh well believe me this is a a business which is you have a very big basket of cargo and all those flower agents around it they 're jumping on this

mhm

and if you say from hey er i like you better o r or this lady is er is more beautiful than that lady whatever you give her a better price it does n't work out because they around they will come back to you say hey [S2] e r i do n't believe it you gave her or you gave him a better price because of this

mhm

so in that respect we learned from ourselves and said okay well e r this is too much because at the end of all you 'll be a referee it 's it 's it 's it 's incredible and in in that way we give everybody the same chance if ooph well a- a- again we still need to get the shipment also but

sure

we give them the same rates

to make sure you do n't hit this conflict in

erm we like this and er that 's the best way to do it er m just make sure er that e r your offline stations

mhm

er are doing the same i mean er clear you have a rate ex amsterdam and you have a rate ex frankfurt which should be normally a hire rate

mhm

and not a common rate to amster dam which often happens with e r offline stations not only with [org2] but

mhm

yeah yeah i know i know

with x of things hh and also if you open your office in munich then then e r for a special quotation you should offer ex amsterdam ex munich the same rate

yah yah

and this you have to assure within your system cos otherwise exactly this game will start

yeah [S1] i give you a guarantee this this is

mhm

this is n't done

er was n't was n't meant as a in this way but we know that this

thing

often happens especially in your offices and you have to promote this flight

mhm

and you forget about the truckings e r you have it with with a lot of carriers hh

yeah

[org19] [org20] and and and a ll w-

mhm

whatever you name it yeah and there especially then the hiccups start ed

mhm

and then it starts really this this this games and we all know in europe the worst case we have at [org21] airlines hh er you pick up the phone you call frankfu rt e r you have a rate a you call brussels you have a rate b you call amsterdam you have a rate c and then you start to call the round again and you tell everybody and at the end of the day you decrease the margin

i know but this this this is the thing

this is not wealthy for the airlines and it 's not wealthy fo r the brokers like we are

it 's not wealthy for the whole market i mean our tar- ca n't er can only be which is er for our lengths to the far east er nearly impossible for two thousand four but we should all try to keep as high as possible

yeah yeah

as higher the rates as better the benefits for the air carrier are as m- more margins we we as broker can can add on it 's xx x xx a little bit for two thousand and four

mhm

but er er at least we should be realistic

yeah and er er this this hiccups er ruin

yeah yeah

you know that er i was i was i was thinking during e r the conversation now maybe it 's a difference is in incentives but this is also not the case within [org2] because we work only on on revenue base

yeah

so it means it 's not on price incentives or whatever so t- in this term they 're always or can never cut down rates also

mhm

because it 's in total picture and to tell you honestly i 'm always open with er conversations like this is that we only have two incentives in whole europe and that 's it

yeah

and this is out of the netherlands for the rest e r but again [S1] you have my my e r guarantee that we really do n't work like this because what i explained you know especially with this dutch part well in my [org3] times for example you know it it was sometimes it was e r well big fights you know you get really big fights like that and e r you you see it 's particular some airlines because they a re having more friendship particular with this agents they say okay we give you ten cents less and the rest we put higher but then that agent from there is making promises to the shipper which are totally not true but well it it it it it it gives a lot of hiccups in the whole situation

ends up in a mess

it ends up in a mess

yeah

and especially on the ad hoc market e r and a- as from five tons it is ad hoc

uhu

it goes throu gh europe

to tell you to tell you how we work we ha ve er a big map each inquiry which runs in within [org2] does n't matter which person

mhm

because we all know goes into a map will be er filed unde r alphabetic order of the company names and then suppose the next one calls first thing which you do is first screen if this inquiry already comes in and from there if we already gave er a rate to a particular shipment whatever

we will always say the same

mhm

again because to avoid this conflict which mi ght can happen and in that sense we we do it and we keep even the files we keep on file for six months no we really because sometimes e r i get inqu- well i need to look back from hey e r did we really offer this kind of lower rate what ever

and then

then i can find it but er this is really a a thing how we do it in this situation but again i give you my hand my guarantee we do n't do it

mhm

and especially you know also with with the countries we try to avoid it because nowadays er what you say you know especially on the ad hoc every body i s

crazy

aggressive ly running

yeah

try to to get this this this unique shipment

absolutely

yeah

try to succeed to get this capacity of course

mhm

but again any more questions e r i believe you know maybe er accounting accountingwise we we face some

i i did n't heard any prob lems

ooph i have to ask [firstname11] but

i did n't heard any problems regarding xxx

no late late from last year i notice

i do n't think so

some particula r we our mistake some particular mistakes on accounting bu t er i had a big talk with our accounting hh to l- to let you know we have a central accounting man who is responsible

mhm

he is based in manchester and he does all our accounting a nd what he did he sent the invoices in e r br- british pounds

hh we ll

and this is

it it it 's it was a good thing for us

well er it it 's a slight difference only a slight one

but this this this this is particully i i believe this is so unpro fessional

yeah

hh you know e r and e r i 've been talking to your accounting department also for hey sorry my apologi es and whatever but

i remember there was a problem with the rates that 's true

we made immediately er

yeah

i remember but that 's already long it was august or something like that because xx was coming to me

yeah but er

and was asking me but that should be settled in the anyway

yeah but that 's

since since since months i do n't hear hear any thing any more

because i did n't heard anything

m hm

so every thing should be fine there in this this re spect mhm

xxxx

yeah

okay

yeah

but suppose well if there 's anything whatever what would be necessary in that way o r just let me know cos i want to e r make sure everything especially in that that kind of of thing would be okay but e r what i notice from last year we had some o- other hiccups you know er what i just explained to you but for the rest it 's all okay i believe so

mhm

and rating wise o kay er well that the the same rate is the same what we agreed it 's e r it 's it 's totally clear

yeah

and e r

okay

some more general issues no

hhh yeah from our side e r i said already we ha- will have the splitting of the department

mhm

yeah so the your contact partners has changed a little bit

mhm

hh er m [S3] and [firstname6] for the middle east and india if you go there er m for you main lands this will be [S7] for hongkong er and shang hai

mhm

if there 's sense to talk about and e r [firstname7] for mainland china yeah er in the far east team er m [S9] australia yeah

this this also yeah yeah particular australia

yeah i think so

e r

something going on

this

this is an

xx there x

but again you know the the chinese they are so diplomatic concerning those expansion some time

yeah

and er well the the the thoughts the promise which goes out we 're probably gon na ha ve not this year but probably starting from that year e r this er new route say to australia e r which i did n't tell you yet is that well e r we bought our fifth freighter also

who

a ha

the fourth is coming well any moment it 's already in our er it 's not in the system but they rebuilding it to the cargo versions

mhm

and this fifth is gon na be rebuilt also this year but then into we we call the master e r project er which we have until two thousand seven e r it 's gon na be that we 're gon na have in total ten freighters own freighters so a lot of planes still to come up as from next year we 're gon na have four hundreds a nd we 're already screening around where we can buy those four hundreds because the four hundreds actually normally you buy them new but they are too expensive to buy new bu t if you want to buy them e r second hand whatever then it 's now not the time yet to buy them

hh a lot of two hundreds are on the market but not four hundreds

ye s well the three hundreds we want to buy also the classics and e r again we have one on on on on side which is actually from [org22] airlines this is also something particular you know if if you look to [org2] which is chinese and taiwan this fourth actually is from that

mhm

port which we bought but they do n't open it why because it 's so diplomatic between thailand over all

hhh

yeah yeah hh

er and er you know we we had our management meeting in hongkong and we want to announce it in europe hey look [org2] we we we have another freighter again hh but then they say no hh this is the reason why behind it because we can not open it here but what we gon na do in europe we gon na have a big news flash insert to particular news media so whatever to ha ve this in into the world because we believe this is a good expansion exposure for the company then okay again we have a new flyer hhh but to come back to australia this this is a a good thing and er maybe even earlier then what i explained to you

mhm

not this year er but er as starting from the first of two thousand and five maybe earlier but er well again i 'm dutch i always say first see and then

hh we see it 's gon na open but before that and that 's probably this year we 're gon na open probably e r the united states and this is from out of china

mhm

and this is particular to serve their demand whi ch they have particular from e r well

transpacific yeah

yes

yeah but australia is normally also a good option cos e r

well you you you can see er [S1] that the other chinese carriers they choose the other way around you see like [org23] they 'd started er with freighters then first to the united states but well at that time it was terrible especially if you look the the inbound rates were

mhm

lousy the other way around was er well pretty pretty good or the chinese say mamahuhu hh and then er

then they open the european routes which [org23] does now the shanghai

m hm

and we actually did it the other way around because we belie ved that in cargo sense was more of interesting to open first europe and try to well to have this lift up in an er in an good situation er which is preferable for [org2] and now more or less we 're gon na open say that part so the the united states part and this this is actually you s- you see within lot of chinese carriers they did it the other way around hh but particular i explained to you also about [org2] that [org2] was er also only focusing on the cargo side and this is actually something also i did n't tell [S3] also that if you look to to two thousand and three that to give you a brief picture about [org2] the first six months were brilliant we never had a better year than er was er than than ever import and exports and then the sars came in

a nd even with the sars on the cargo it did n't affect a- any we even got slightly more well let 's say er smaller shipments because like coffee was out and tho- those let 's say those shipments

it 's xxxxxx

they roll in in to our

yeah

oper ation hh

yeah

but then the passenger side overall made tremendous losses to give you an idea tha t e r normally [org2] flies the passengerwise we fly eleven to fifteen thousand people a day from out of hongkong to several places

mhm

but at that time with the sars which tooks actually three months we only had five hundred a thousand hhh so you can imagine bʊːm how much losses

and it will come again

mhm but again then the cargo that 's why er [org2] is now so more er trying again to expand and more focusing erm on the cargo hh is that we made these losses break even again er because what we had as profit we made them again a s the break even the total picture and this is quite unique fo r this small airline which i consider us to be in this part of the world it 's a it 's a very good success story otherwise we were making a lot of lot of profit over all seen because you know the business is still earned by the passenger side also by [org2] but to give you an idea how much cargo is the influence of it it 's now at the moment it 's forty per cent and this is for an airline it 's er well it 's a tremendous height

tremendous

but again you know and this this is a good scenario for us because i 'm up to my hh big toe i 'm a cargo guy

hhh and er i

i want everything in cargo to be successful whatever and this ceo of [org2] is so pro cargo that gives us the motivation to be so very strong and powerful to to help him you know to get europe er as one of the well we want to be e r a cargo airline out of europe and this is this is e r something good to give us the motivation you know that that want to make ourselves big in that way and this helps us a lot because i 've been working i i go back to my xx for [org3] airlines hh and if you look in the beginning of [org3] airl- when i start working there it it there was a total sixty-five thousand people who work out there but all more focused to this passenger side you know and we as cargo we 're always er you 're in cargo er

mhm

that wa- that was always you know you always felt yourself

yeah

aside and now within [org2] now we you they consider you as er

hello

as one and this is quite unique

mhm

hhh no i said it to the to [firstname12] already at the very first meeting we had with [org2] when you when you was basing yourself here er er basically from the ideas this is this is fine for us er m we had e r some problems er in the last year t- not to extend er our cooperation but this is erm mainly to a lot of e r internal reasons also the organizations we 're still in erm and b- er same time the the rate decreasement

yeah

yeah so erm as you know we have the internal ground network we bring it to the gateway hh same time e r a lot of carriers including [org2] had to offer much different rates already at the offline stations to still survive

mhm

yeah and the re is is a problem okay as you know the the e r reorganization is continuing erm in frankfurt nothing is happening e r which we do n't know

m hm

yeah and this will be mo re and more developed surly this year frankfurt will be fully in line hh and more or less within even this year the [org1] branches will step out in germany from the airline contacts

yeah

so [org1] munich even if you have a munich flight

yeah

you have to deal with e r either us in luxembourg or the callers in frankfurt from [org5]

yeah

so the project is still going on and and and so on

you know i 've definit- definitely will again i- invite you hi [S7]

say hello okay

just wanted to say hello

yeah

e r you changed no er thank you you changed the whole schedule y- e r we do first the meeting and then the lunch

n o we just

postponed and delayed

e r postpone delay okay fine for me

i told [S8] and and to c- be downstairs still at one o'clock [S8] and [S9]

yeah okay okay good yeah that 's okay hm then [S9] can discuss about australia

yeah

so on okay

you know definitely [firstname13] myself will again e r make

yeah

or try to make an e r a meeting when this is more close say to the kick-off date

yeah

of this e r munich part and then e r we 'll try to discuss any possibilities opportun ities whatever

mhm

which we can have on play say for this part

absolutely

yeah an d we know already just to let you know but we 're still fighting i come back to that but er e r they gave us already a schedule which is on day one four and six

ex munich

yes

mhm

a nd we are already having timings which e r i believe was around eleven o'clock in the morning departure out of munich but ag- again [S1] this this is in an in an stadium because [firstname13] and myself we believe that at day one is not a very good opportunity

for well this this is a point of discussion which we are talking over with then hongkong at the moment try to have an other day to avoid this day one why because already in amsterdam we have day one departure

mhm

suppose we have in munich day one departure well this this is er for europe is a tremendous lack of capacity whi ch i s er well it it 's a loss if you put it in that way

you have already two problems here it not only the monday flight you have a problem

mhm

if you e r er try to think you schedule a flight on a on day four

mhm

before lunch you have a next problem

mhm

a lot of er the cargo a ma- majority of cargo in europe is concentrated in xx centers not only with [org5] [org24] [org25] wherever everybody with the same

mhm

so the german cargo is in frankfurt

mhm

trucked out from the original branches on day three arriving frankfurt round about m- midnight and then they con solidate the same goes in austria

m hm

ev erything goes to linz to vienna italy same same if you have then to build everything up and bring it to munich

mhm

they make it earliest on thursday morning to truck out

check okay

so if you go for an early uplift on day four hh the only er airline who can do this and survives this

mhm

really i mean amsterdam is a little bit different market cos with a perishable market you can catch these flights and all this and and this is big fill-up

mhm

e r is here in luxembourg [org26] simply the fact we get the same cargo over night to luxembourg

mhm

otherwise they have a problem that 's why also why [org27] airlines flights are only in the afternoon you need some more hours here

mhm

that 's a that is a good point but er

yeah

again er we are discussing also with the hongkong people

mhm

and e r well it also has to do with the airport itself of course if we can get slots or whatever

hhh and as the money is done on the import side and you arrive at nine o'clock am you can deliver till one o'clock to the clients

yeah

they can maybe make a fast delivery in munich area so you can er deliver same day to door e r this is a service more there and e r i think the rate discre pancy is two three dollars a kilo so

great great

maybe you should think more about that factor but er well there 'll be a gap to fill up hh so you will end up with a lot of fill-up rates

erm if you will implement these these munich flights e r same time you still keep all flights in amsterdam

yes yes

okay so you go er away from a single gateway concept

well er you know it 's it 's a it 's it 's a a thing again we are looking and analyzing ourselves also

mhm

because we believe i i see a little doubt in your eyes also

that you say well if you have six flights amsterdam and the n say another three in munich which is actually well if you look to the map it 's it 's quite close to each other hhh but especially they er were also talking about a frankfurt operation and this discussion is also still going on anyway hh e r we believe that er munich is still the best opportunity why because servicewise we could cover e r the east bloc coun tries

m hm

in a better in a better way because er well the transit will be way less

m hm

al so italy e r we could penetrate better because of service because of again the transit is better

mhm

hh and we consider it maybe y- unlike yourself we w- but we consider then germany as er two part hh because we say okay a northern part whi ch we say this is the frankfurt area this this is our opinion er [S1]

mhm

and then the southern part which is the munich

mhm

i s also a different area hh e r we can cover that part with that particular fl ights

mhm

because of course that we say we have now a certain allocation from germany into our amsterdam

mhm

er operation and slightly this will wake a way to this maybe munich but not in total be- because we want to split germany this a- again this is er a thought that the northern part will still feed in the amsterdam because we believe the distance does n't make that many difference

mhm

because frankfurt amsterdam is probably the same frankfurt munich in that way so we could serve those two that to the left say the the amsterdam part and then the rest what i explained to you er say to the munich part

mhm

but what still it 's it 's a thing

h hh erm

er which it 's i be lieve still tough to do so because well a lot of capacity is xx

and er

it just a question of philosophy i mean er it 's not a sceptic in my eyes er it just e r the question where where you 're heading as as a company p- e r politics

mhm

yeah er other carriers just go back to a single er gateway concept

m hm

or e r like [org28] having a a concept in brussels now plus in in milano

m hm

yeah hh with the two gateway you had been traditionally a one gateway

mhm

which has benefits and which has problems

m hm

why i fully agree to your opinion e r if you go to munich by the way munich is better than frankfurt cos e r if they got the new runway anyway the xxx for down like hell

er this this was

so that 's why munich is is also for the east hangars you cut down for the cargo from from e r south europe or i taly

plus eastern bloc er by at least one day c- er transit time

mhm

yeah this is why munich is not a bad one

yeah yeah

sure not hh yeah er better than to go to frankfurt i mean frankfurt amsterdam is really tricky okay we can catch up a little bit hh

mhm

the southern part in in frankfurt but erm erm it 's five hours down there to amsterdam

well again again er look we we need to see ourselves too if it 's gon na happen like this because well we believe that we say okay the catchment area we want to succeed

m hm

that still the northern of germany

yeah

feeds in our part in amsterdam and then the southern part e r we tried to fill in in the munich but well i believe and e r well i believe it 's everywhere you know if you are a german you want to particully feed in a german city maybe this this is normal i i think

it chang ed in the forward er 's li- and forwarder 's life has changed hh client side yes i would say they still have this

all

mhm

and national carrier like [org29] and all this is also xxxx

yeah

so- sometimes is two ways you know in ex ample for example if you are an agent in

amsterdam [org4] is the biggest in amsterdam but everybody hates [org4] this this it 's er er i do n't know how come it 's a

in ger many you can do what you want it 's [org29]

if you go to switzerland yeah well

it 's [org30] er it 's [org31] it 's er

yeah

in in that way it 's particully it 's totally different again

yeah

but er well i do n't know but er again [S1] it it 's a thing

it can work out

and e r we believe that well especially with the three flights we still can manage to succeed to get this hh preferred high load factors you know now it 's not more the point that say the er the east bound is well yieldwise i s it 's nothing but say the west bound it 's still very strong and this i- this is particular the asian carriers they can still make those flights

absolutely yeah

and er well we had a tremendous year say with the imports a nd to briefly explain you you know what we also did was i s that we had a bid system this is this is incredible hh in in china each station like wuhan chengdu whatever all the [org2] stations which we have they could bid in with space control for space

we allocated roughly ninety ninety-two tons as firm bookings and everybody e r wanted to have more already in that but well okay they could not and then they had a particular free space but this free space they did a bid system so all the station hh they need to call they say okay er i want to have five tons fo r a rate of whatever hh and then after four hours the decision was made this is particular for each flight huh

mhm

after four hours the the highest bid run out could take along on that flight

hh hhh yeah

and i tell you a little secret you know the highest rate was five dollars ninety us dollars

mhm

it 's er the kilo and this this is a shipment of six thousand kilos this is a

mhm

they pay they paid it this is this this is it 's it 's inbelievable

hh i mean that that you not e r e r put another three f- rotations into europe

mhm

from the export we all know now normally your face should be o w how can i fill this where to get the cargo without ruin the market hh

i know

but erm yeah i said we are far away from from these kind of yields as you know

uhu

so at the end of the day y ou play you pay your round trip

yeah

with import cargo

yeah

have already profit on there and whatever you put on here is er

yeah

as long as your admin is is covered e r

yeah yeah but the danger the danger

[S1] the danger is quite near er look the westbound is now okay but the eastbound e r as we all know rates are whhhh and you see this imbalance is getting closer to the the break even more and more because the

er it will be

especially yeah okay but the there the there 's a scenario

it 's

suppose now hh you know the united states at this moment some routes may be not very profitable i am talking mono routes whatever hhh a nd you see that a lot of capacity from there is turnover to this asian market

mhm

try to have this profit because everybody thinks it 's still very profitable so this may be ruin say also this may be this west bound traffic from that side suppose there 's somebody coming in there and is dumping the rates at that end then this imbalance is very coming to a break even point that a lot of

yeah but this imbalance will will continue to rise

def initely i mean er m it was traditionally on one to six one to seven now we are sure al- already at one to ten that 's why every carrier especially the far east carrier are starting more and more rotations into europe

mhm

cos more and more production is in the far east area hh er m for the next two three four years i er do n't see a change at all

no no

cos no body will withdraw the flights

er parti- particully you know also what 's is in stake is the culture i believe you know because if you see how they make deals there

yeah

together the airlines together they say well they talk around they have weekly conference calls together

mhm

[org19] and e r [org2] i could tell you and whatever and they say hey er well it 's tremendous here today

yeah yeah

let 's e r pick up the rates for ten cents whatever

mhm

and er this is the way they talk that 's er it 's incredible but er

clear the way with er hh er your friend from [org32] is your best enemy yeah and then

if we do it here in europe

okay

do n't take my equip ment hhh yeah okay we have to see what what comes i mean there are some er weird scenarios in there we have to see how the er surcharges develop which are at the end of the day are part of the rates so if we take hhh your decreased rates e r in comparison to one year before what you have the increased surcharges at the end of the day nothing has changed hhh but as we know clients you can easilier sell this as surcharges of xx clients hhh somehow they have never recognized that there is nothing else on the rate but if it 's the way it is wait and see but i expect for two thousand four that we really go for for rear break e r rock-bottom break points

yeah

mhm

i think so

i have already indication from ho- er from from [org30] twenty-five dollar cents are possible as as airfreight weight

yeah

to the far east so

it 's good the surcharge is even higher the

yah i have the bet er may june i said we 're we 'll have e r a lower average weight than the surcharges

yeah

yeah we can talk then again if if i 'm e r absolutely correct hh but you you really never know i do n't see that erm

it 's er

airlines vanishing from the market i see er more and more same as you er e r aircrafts coming in

mhm

for the e r western the er for the for the asia market hhh so the war on the eastbound hhh will be cos we all know the european economy is is decreasing the productivity is in comparison to the giant productivity expensive like something and if you look to the e er eu or the germans or the french or wherever all have problems and all politic- politicians are not reacting

mhm

so and erm also we all do n't want to work sixty hours any more er saturdays like the chinese do and er hh work for two hundred euros a month so erm

here we are and this imbalance will w - e r will give us a lot of headaches e r lately but

mhm

somehow we have to tackle it hhh okay erm shall we 'll start with hongkong and china

hong kong

you said you e r established new flight three out of munich on one four and six er i i was just jumping in their dis cussion so i i used the first

yes

yeah we er as [org2]

xxx

to i i start over again er [org2] we 're er at the moment in the point of view to e r expand ourselves again and er germany is er this year on the road to e r open our own online station so pure a [org2] station and e r officially we may announce it will be frankfurt or munich but it 's munich hh so we 're gon na fly to munich a nd er this is i just explained to [S1] that we er i just had this a vailability of er of days which we are pre-planning those flights which are on day one and day four and day six hhh but again e r internally it 's still also a point of discussion you know [firstname13] and myself we are trying to convince the hongkong people from er other options of days why because again they choose those days again because of the eastbound you know and the westbound situation

mhm

they say well our imports are strong on those days so okay we wan na fly on those days but again er m i explained to [S1] from hey look er day one is not a preferable day for us because well this is a week day it 's a monday so well it 's it 's not a very good top day to have this flight to munich hhh and then [S1] explained okay er the fourth which we have er in plan

mhm

is maybe also not a good scenario to have it and then e r maybe the

mhm

the day three would be a good option solution maybe to have it

hh e r postpone just just on day four is a good flight day but postpone from the morning to the evening

an- anyway this this

mhm

then you have the chance to get the cargo in time

yeah hh er this a- again you know it 's er i i just received a message yesterday from hong kong

mhm

e r slightly a schedule but also er what i did n't explain to you also hh we 're gon na have flights manchester munich dubai

mhm

hongkong hh we are still e r looking to opportunities from maybe amsterdam munich er or

m hm

what ever

mhm

er all kinds of structures of routes but more or less those days hongkong prefer to fill in er destiny er the day of operation say out of munich and this this

what what what are the fees in in hong- and in munich for time being for landing handling

a- again [S1]

with with payment the the landing handling fees in munich where are they

i did n't e r kept myself busy with this hh

you have to look okay mhm

but i believe you know er this is also a point that why we choose munich also because of this because it was lower

yeah something you can afford

especially well munich a nd if you look to munich the airport is tremendous full of course

yeah

that 's also a point and also a third point wa s that munich [org29] was the only operator at that moment with freighters so er we were quite new

mhm

as a new cargo airline to come to munich hh

yeah

munich they welcomed us from if we were kings because well munich want to expand themselves also

yeah

it 's e r it 's also a good thing hh but well especially it was the purpose a nd the major thing that we choose this destination is because of the catchment areas and this is the the major point that we can spread more let 's say the southern part the east bloc

mhm mhm

and then we put the north side and the scandi- scandinavian part whatever

okay

and this is more or less the the idea behind it hh well this this all [S7] this e r

is gon na start e r probably april may what they promise us but [firstname13] and myself we believe we were gon na start june july and this all depends on the delivery of our plane which is now e r in a conversion way to to build to this cargo er configuration which we need to have to operate this it 's not only particular because of this plane because we have now three planes hh and if you look to our block hours at the moment which we fly it 's only eighty per cent

m hm

but we do this on purpose especially to make sure our service is becoming flexible why because hh if you blockhour your operation hours of your plane too much and something is bvʊm like this technical what ever

you have a problem

then you have a big problem the whole rotation goes out and now we can fit in very flexible very fast in that way

this is what [org33] always have they have er er official block hours of nine to two

yes

yeah but er reality is er less than seventy cos e r aogs a re one after the other

mhm

yeah and that 's exactly why eighty eighty per cent is a goo- is is really good val ue hh block hours

yeah

er we we we kept in on purpose around the eighties

mhm

we did this on purpose especially because to make sure and especially we want to promote and extend themselves to that market as we are a a cargo airline hh but we want to give the service as a passenger airline and that you only can do to fly on time

mhm

and er be your in schedule

yeah

make it secure

sure

yeah

and this is why we did the block hours x but if the fourth plane comes in again your flexibility is way higher but then again we 're gon na open er i i forgot to mention also well tokyo we 're now at this moment e r

[S8]

flying to osaka

[S8]

but to tell you something is tokyo is first gon na be served by a narrow body or a lower deck flight as the eight three thirties we bought five new eight three thirties

yeah

but it 's er opening and then er when it 's gon na be successful which it 's already because china japan is a tremendous market

er for seventy cents we can find e- er even narrow body cargo

yes it 's erm

yeah

hh i believe no the best route within the [org2] system is taiwan shanghai hh that 's the

i do n't know how well it 's it 's incredible but then the second route is hongkong osaka but anyway this is new routes

taiwan shanghai is anyway a a good road er but you go via hongkong still i guess

touchdown hongkong and then you go to shanghai you do n't have the the rights to fly direct no actually those routes we converted or actually traded together with [org34]

mhm

and this is e r you know er something also again diplomatic

yeah

way of

of xx

of e r agotiations which they had with [org34] and then well it 's er was we trade between the two companies but well it 's a su- a tremendous success those flights we fly i believe e r i do n't know eight to twelve flights a day it 's full

yeah

totally but totally full

er it 's a good market e r anyway i mean xxxxx with er [org35] airlines and erm hh it 's always

and rate - rate wise we as well ooph

yeah yeah

hh we we are jealous here

yah i know i know

i think so

i also think so

i know yeah

hhh okay erm hongkong let 's e r start with hongkong okay erm

hongkong

yes

for for the munich operation just keep us updated for us at the end of the day it does n't matter from where erm

yes i i believe you maybe know with e r with munich hh when i get more concrete figures

yeah

concerning more tighter schedules e r well day of operations all kinds of things like that then i believe it will be around well let 's say end of february maybe beginning of march then w- i will contact you again we put up the a genda some date

mhm

that we 're gon na have a meeting again and then we discuss again

yeah

the part x now let 's discuss just the amsterdam side if you pre - okay with you er [S7] hhh and

yeah

yeah otherwise i would have asked for fill-up rates on the munich flights but okay if they are n't established yet

e r for the for the fill-up rates for the fill-up rates we need already at the amsterdam hhh yeah

but er

er you know the the main reasons why we have stopped e r in september october the the the hongkong operation with you is simple the fact hhh as you know that all e r

x x

big carriers e r er

stopped as well er or decreased their rates tremendously yeah and e r to offer a service which is within our systems traditionally with one day longer transit times on a direct flight which is part of our system as you know erm the rate discre pancy for let 's say a so-called B service for our marketing due to transit time was too low to bring it to the market hh i mean the er we we all know the local markets e r in frankfurt for example e r [org32] er [org29] has dropped to hh rates between seventy-five eighty-five i 'm not talking about ad hoc rates just real normal rates hh h

m hm

er even [org32] has taken in december rates around fif- er sixty-five yeah for all their flights

m hm

e r without having problems hh we all know that [org36] in in frankfurt is selling fifty-five

mhm

er and you see they have a direct flight everybody 's trucking in germany erm lower costs and we to luxembourg t- to frankfurt they fly on next day out we get the cargo to luxembourg we need one more transit day to amsterdam yeah and then what shall we offer you have a discre pancy of two three cents you can give but er for two three cents

m hm

they will not decide they want to have the faster flight hh due to the capacity there is no er capacity overhang to hongkong there is no problem to get the cargo moving

mhm

yeah hhh erm hh [S7] has just er received some some nice re quests where it might be possible if we agree on a on a rate hh to target this service again for two days

mhm

that was friday and monday uplift

friday monday uplift

yeah

that 's why i

mhm

was double checking with the munich

mhm hhh

long story

er m talking about six to seven hundred tons a mon- a year in total

deduct two hundred but e r four to five hundred i 'd say

deduct two hundred maybe for total business we just have the figures

mhm

hh hh

you know that er to jump ahead you know with conversation ra tes and blah blah blah

mhm

that hh what i 'm willing to do is er to make er you a very good offer and then particular say for i do n't know four months hh let 's say as a kick-off when we start the germany hh a nd you use this rate and i be- i i i say a very good offer especially because now it 's er it 's ripe for a good timing e r market is starting again er slow ly we start a new year whatever that we

mhm

hh give you a sort of i call promotional rate

mhm

er m to cover this fo r for four months and see what you can do with that rate hhh but

what rate do you have in mind

well around the the fifty maybe even less but it 's a a point of discuss ion

still waiting for a good rate

i know i know i know i 've got

i gon na discuss this first with er hongkong especially why because i want to back up myself a nd it 's not that i can not endorse those rates but i want to have this in line together er with hongkong so i want to make sure everything adminis trative is okay with them

mhm

a nd i will motivate this kind of particular deal to er well i i believe i i look actually to the last couple of months of of last year to get you more in into the [org2]

mhm

we do more business again with a a good solution which is first the rating situ ation of course

and in that way i want to motivate hongkong this er to get this very nice unique rate

m hm

and try to promote you in that kind of way to get more business from you guys on the [org2] hh and especially the the timing is perfect for to get this point of view to hong kong

yeah

because the market situation at this moment is like this to put it in and to convince those people and

absolutely

and i give you this hint concerning this rate

m hm

that i try i promise you to ge t even a lower rate but then i want to have from your help to promote me

yeah

in that kind of way also hh try to to get [org2] maybe in the lift also because well what i explained now we get the munich part so er maybe for in the future we can have even better deals we make incentives of whatever and

m hm

in that prospect we start again a new fresh start let 's let 's call it like that i do n't know

hh yeah erm this is the only way we can do erm erm erm

yeah

and then

i i know it 's it 's tough you know er if you call anyone hongkong you get so many good deals at the moment

it 's e r xxx it 's it 's er i heard rates well you probably also even van thir ty cents you know er

mhm

ad hoc mar ket and

it 's er

it 's it 's er

would definitely agree we 'll not er go for the ad hoc market hh but you know our system we will not come to you if you 're not requ- requested for a special rate and surely we will not come for one ton e r four to five ten tons it starts er but we have to ask hhh the rates are forty and lower already yeah

it 's good

and er m we all know

yeah

that [org4] especially and [org30] e r a re are ruin ing the market hhh but erm

mhm

what we really would need cos we just have this one request which came from scandinavia means we will not go with this rate on the market erm scandinavia is still higher hh but we need it for trucking for handling for all these these things yeah erm

how how much is that did you say [S1]

two options

e r e r this would be

trucking handling

er yeah a little bit erm depending on on the utilization of trucks we have cos we have we have continue but we need hh need roughly thirty cents

mhm

if you have to bring it to amsterdam cos if we have to bring it from scandinavia first to luxembourg to handle it and bring it then to amsterdam so it 's a it 's a twice trucking scenario hhh erm in overall i can make life very easy there 're two rates i have in mind depending on what you can do either it 's the fifty cents ex frankfurt

m hm

ex luxembourg to have both options so you arrange a truck from here you get rounds with five hundred kilograms e r or we deliver to amsterdam

but then

then we need forty-five minimum

okay

even then you have not given me the best offer for the same

mhm

cos we have forty-two with [org30] pickup from luxembourg warehouse

mhm

and they want to have also the cargo this is

okay

purely the market scenario hh i can live with a little bit higher rate if you arrange the pickups we have to agree cos to have an easy scenario for a flat rate plus one hundred kilograms target is to build up units

m hm

this is absolutely clear

yeah

e rm we have to talk about the pivots then yeah

mhm

and as soon i i think for the monday flight we can build up definitely already hh for the rest it 's it 's a new business which we can attack yeah it 's a little bit an attack business e r w- together with [org1] scandinavia and then we would have for us the benefit would be we have the base load again we would have the base load to s- kick off a system e r another story again hhh where we can then feed also other cargo into it

okay

yeah but we need first this base load i mean there is no need to talk about we can bring you two hundred kilograms a week i mean er in general cargo

you know

you know may- maybe a strange question from my side yeah e r it 's maybe to bring better to hongkong people that i camouflage it er it maybe sounds strange to you it 's it 's fooling around with head office actu ally hh but you say that we have er well pivots it 's e r well er er what i what i do i i make you a proposal to [S7] and then e r hh i then i make a proposal that e r well it will be a good offer and the n more or less the good offer will be you can find it in in the pivots actually hh so well the pivots i will build in less for example

mhm

why why i do this if you look e r to a certain rate and the hongkong people they always look o h wow e r rate is e r it 's too low but if you cam ouflage it in a way like i n in pivot weight

mhm

they will not consider it very easily to to have it in like that i can convince them in easier in that way so well i 'll make you a proposal that it is is that a good deal which i can do it in that sense

mhm okay

yeah

yes but you have to bear in mind that the pallets will be maximum one to six if not volume

okay well

so er do n't go for a high dense cos for high dense e rm e rm k- whatever you can offer

no well if if you x called if if he called me i 'd

if you come with twenty-five cents for high dense er you will not get the car- get the cargo hh yeah cos we handle as well a volume account which runs on a certain carrier hh so we 're looking desperately ourselves for for high dense which we can can feed in

mhm

so erm i know that a lot of times on the pivot with three point five tons on a main deck is is tremendously you end up with thirty cents or less hhh but you will never get these

it 's it 's not

just want to bring in put rea lism in we 're talking about normal one to six measuring car go

yeah yeah okay no no problem

on the on on the pallets

no problem

yeah

hh okay and if you if you say i mean it 's it 's erm the way you have to deal within your company er m it 's clear hh but erm as we do n't know this client and know and do n't know exactly this production flow and so on then it will be that we will surely face e r a lot of times er cancellations cos if you have two three four hundred kilograms only we can not build the unit

m hm

yeah okay more or less than for for a friday set-up or something and we 'll switch it simply to another carrier instead of also giving this to [org2] and it 's cos this was the idea behind the plus one hundred rate

mhm

yeah something just for you whatever you you e r want to do

m hm

and have to do in cluding politics

well i a gain [S1] i 'm open in that and e r i th- i think maybe this is a good solution

yeah

abso lutely

or may be maybe they allow me to do so

hello

they are

yeah i mean i just want to keep everything open on on on the desk so that you can really really look to it

yeah

okay hh

you have maybe more questions e r [S7]

this one

i just wanted is the hongkong issue actually that 's was the maj- major part chin a mainland [firstname7] is not in to day she 's off

set yourselves

yeah

for two days

yeah

mhm

and that e r would be the next issue erm any changes in the schedules any new flights

well changes changes in respect tha t

it does n't xx again

some of the routes are doubled

mhm

but e r what i do i will give you a new schedule and e r to give you an example fo r maybe beijing is increased to from ten to twelve e r

but it 's all the lo- only lower deck eight three twenty or

yes eight three well three three thirty lower lower deck pallets

yeah but we we currently are we have two flights that in front of the door we

it 's it 's a a weakness which we have within [org2]

well i tell you it 's a well beijing i wish we had main deck to beijing but unfortunately it 's also a- a- again it 's the di plomatic

make him offer for main deck we can offer you a main deck

yeah we can offer you a space from

yeah

beijing main deck space

but er okay well

just call me

make okay make me a offer like that because well i get so many enquiries

yeah

yeah shoot it

shoot it

yeah

shoot [S7]

yeah no prob lem

al so

we have no prob- e r

what i forgot to ah it 's [S3]

we have to we have to see with with e r but normally we should have no problem with it as long as the [org2] xxx we cover it and you have [org2] beijing

yeah

yeah no problem

yeah also dubai you know as a backup ai n't this fo- fo r [S3] maybe you know er sometimes well we had it last year one time e r due to technical whatever hh and we guarantee always that we try to succeed to make sure the cargo will ride

mhm

on the fastest way to this destination so at that time we had an er cancellation whatever and we tried to find a good partner

mhm

to give this backup and then we tried to make the solution okay get rid of the dubai load first and try to whateve r find an a solution on any carrier

feel free for all this

yeah

absolutely

okay

but for mainland china make yourself e r life easy sixty cents to all destination then you 're erm near to the market

we can start talk

no not a joke not a joke

ow hh but ai n't that

it 's not easy

it 's not a joke any more it 's not a joke any more [S2] believe me for xiamen or whatever do n't try to to give us a rate er higher than eighty since some s- er er e r known carriers are flying with freighters into it pf

oh ye s er well i

dock daily

i know i remember we started

mhm tja

with e r those rates e r

no xx

out of the market

out of the out of the question er m erm

yeah

no and er well xiamen we will two flights but er well this is the same scenario which you already know

hh is there any erm you said last summer there will be some changes regarding erm a flight er a third flight going into xiamen

hh yes this is also

this has been established or

no when we get this new flight say er ex munich this will cover also again

mhm

say this freighter destination and particular for that route to add this new e r segment say

m hm

fo r the xiamen but there 's also shanghai it 's a combination we fly either xiamen shanghai or shanghai xiamen

mhm

in that particular route and this will be filled in by this new plane

o h okay

but e r well again when i know more concrete details of that

yeah

er i let you know imme diately

yeah just shoot

mhm

yeah

give the rock bottoms to us we will look into it

mhm

yeah and erm wherever there 's a chance we will try

but this the xiamen is this is this around sixty now

nice job would be

sixty to eighty

no wow

fo r the main client to xiamen from not from us only but e r one of the biggest productions hh e r erm one for xx is like xx sixty cents all in ex europe so er from helsinki to

incredible

or portu guese trucking whatever

o h

so the market is going there

mhm

yeah well at that a tha- that time that you explained me you know those rates i already warned hongkong hey look hh those rates there 's gon na be levelled up to shanghai

xxx means yeah as same becomes a similar destination like shanghai like hong kong like any thing else as soon as there is a freighter going

yeah

and that time you know hongkong ho-

i 'm warning you

hong kong they explained to me no no that 's not gon na happen but er

xxxx now

i i only needed thirty -six months

well it 's hh

xiamen will be the next destination

it 's not only

dropping that way

[S7] is not only where the freighter 's going everybody is offering now the same shanghai and we know where the rate of sh- for shanghai is

mhm

plus twenty c- dollar cents add on

yeah yeah

for trucking

yeah

that 's it

yeah

and you know the shanghai rates are decreas ing er us dollar is decreasing so at the end of the day it 's rock bottom

yeah

what ever

uhu

xxx

uhu

plus in addition more and more airlines go directly into

yeah

they choose the- thei r er airport they wan na go

mhm

like [org37] 's going to dalian now

yah

rates going up

incredi ble yeah

yeah

hhh

yiel- yieldwise which you know er a year ago mainland china was er still okay now er yeah but again you know the the the country itself is opening itself more and more and that 's er particular the main reason

sure

you know e r xx

hhh

any more questions [S7]

not from my side

i 'm okay

recap i will update you you know er especially with this schedule and er er again you know the offer for hongkong i will come back and er try to finish it before friday so of course a copy to you i make a copy to you and you will get it in e r before friday

mhm okay

yeah

okay hh good then i would suggest that er we go for the lunch otherwise it 's getting real warm and e rm then we can use the lunch time that you can update [S9] about the plans to australia which [org2] has and e r [S8] for the plans to japan so cos they are in charge for these lanes mainly and whatever questions you 're gon na have as well

x xxx

feel free to fire

okay

yeah and the lunch is prepared everybody feel free

i come clo ser

yeah

is there a cup of coffee with xx

you like a coffee

yeah

xxx

whatever drinks whatever you like please feel free

yeah

i 'll leave the tape running is that okay

for us yes

is eighty eighty eighty per cent is even [org2] yeah

haeh

everything is from [S2] er that you have already ye ah

it fits on that tape

but that that 's clear sales

pure sales

he has to sell a product to us so that 's the way it is

just show it there is only two choices

mhm

yeah

xxx thirty minutes by [org2]

yeah

what i did you know er i even arranged sponsors

mm okay

so my neighbor er er he made those boards

yeah

normally if you buy a board like this yeah

yeah yeah

which you put in the arena costs fifteen hundred euros some thing like that

yeah

but i only bought one board for fifty guild

a h that 's good it 's good

so i tried to get the sponsors which pay me like

yeah

one thousand euro two thousand euros and i only had expense of fif ty

yeah

or twenty-five euros

that 's that 's a cheap one

yeah

by the way do you want to play soccer

what are you talking about

yeah on the twenty-sixth of ma rch against er old er ajax players just let him know he 's looking for er some people he has arranged something

i 'm not playing

playing

mhm

a gainst old

with who

okay

former ajax players

yes

they have to be very good

could we call [firstname14]

we could work on [firstname14]

he was in my my old team

i mean if you 're talking about xx

you you can have him

baseball bas ketball yeah i mean yeah okay i can do either i hope

[firstname15]

i 'll call you

hey he played soccer together with [firstname15]

is this

yeah hh

[S2] you should have said before to you thanks for your visit but bye hh hh

well you you know my relationship with barcelona

no er the the ninety

i know xx

i did n't know a h you know okay xx

i used i used to be the cargo manager of [org23]

yeah

a h

i u- i used to be

right

before they had the the the cargo slides

you know that

yes

a h okay yeah

yes at that time er [org2] comes in and e r they gave me the opportunity they offer me a job

mhm

so i say yes

mhm

and e r at that time nobody was for hence to go to [org23]

yeah

so i went to [firstname15] i say [firstname15] nice job for you so wff and i go in

hh yeah

but think you did the better choice

xxxx

cos er just ask [firstname15] if you call what he 's doing

i 'm

i 'm i 'm

but this this this is particular chinese you know the

yeah

the structure of the company itself is sometimes well i do n't need to ex plain to you

absolutely problematic

problematic

problematic just for our discussing about dg xx

ur forget it

all these shipment

but [firstname15] [firstname15] and myself we 've been working six years to gether with [org3]

yeah okay and i knew you worked also for [org3] this i did n't know

i worked fourteen fourteen years for [org3] airlines

yeah

and then at that time [firstname15] came in and er

mhm

he worked there six years

m hm

to gether we worked there in the cargo department

mhm

and then he left when [org3] became a gsa

mhm okay

a nd i left for [org23] i 've been working [org23] three years

a h yah

and then er after the three years i introduced [firstname15] to the chinese to say okay [firstname15]

mhm

this is the right person bʊm he said

so you are guilty for [firstname15] okay well good good to know good to know good to know

yes

i 'm

okay

but then e r like [firstname17] [lastname17] and e r you know him pretty well mister [lastname18]

mister [lastname18] i did n't met e r [firstname17] i met i n but er i think [firstname17] e r is never in liege where he should be he 's always in amsterdam making the truckings with er [org4]

traveling around

yeah so afterwards all the market is gone

[firstname17] [firstname17] [firstname17] to tell you i believe he he he 's he 's a good good person you know e r even though you know the chinese cause is

mhm

within him of course but

yeah

he is open

er [firstname17] is european thinking

ye ah

you know chinese and china

yeah

[S2] feel free whatever two choices as usual

i take this one

yeah

i will go for this one i do n't know this plate

m hm

no things

bon appetit

you know that they moved [org23]

yeah and i 'm happy about it

they are one floor here

this is too much fish

underneath us

yeah

so in the building it 's not allowed to smoke any more

but we made [firstname15] 's office as a dedicating smoking area so

okay now i know why i ca n't reach him

i i was sitting next to him

yea h e rm this explains a lot of things

talking about the business together from hey hh what did you generate this month or whatever no just a

i mean i never got ta get him on the first try whenever i call him the first try does n't succeed does n't work out

no way hhh

but you know that

they put me on hold for ten minutes

e r then i hang up

and try twenty minutes later then i got er get him

hh i did you know er especially you know with the telephone lines it 's it 's quite difficult with e r

he needs

am sterdam to change those and e rm they face some problems in the beginning changing the lines and then they made a mistake or something with the lines so maybe that 's that 's the problem they have but

mhm

but er well he is busy he 's busy er on the phone each time so maybe that 's the the difficulty to to reach him

n-n

yeah i think we told him the same a lot of times that he 's difficult to reach

mhm

hhh so you told something which might be interesting for [S8] that you will start with japan flights as i said for seventy cents we can find a way surely even fo r narrow

mhm

just let him know please

but into e r narita o r osaka o r

yes we fly fly at the moment

both

mhm

five times a week e rm i need to check the schedule b- is because shortly we 're gon na announce that we gon na e r lift us up to six times a week and this will start now now our operation starts at midweek wednesday thursday friday saturday sundays out of hongkong

mhm

so this is ou r schedule which is now at the moment and then we 're gon na add er probably the saturday on the sunday an additional sec er out of hongkong

but did n't you

if you carried the freighters i mean er seven four seven as well

yeah pure pure only freighters i 'm talking seven four sev en three hundred

mhm

and this is er only o- on on freighter side we do n't operate any e r passenger flights at this moment to osaka

or kombi or whatever mhm

no the only thing to japan what i discussed also here i s that we 're gon na open the hong- or the tokyo route but this is passenger side so it means that we gon na offer lower deck

mhm

a nd this is the eight three thirties and this is pure to tokyo of course we can offer say within china or for within japan excuse me e r several destinations but this all is connections on trucks and this is to to let you know it 's all pure based on the [org38] airlines er connection is pure the same trucking scenario they have

o h

and we made a deal together with them

that 's nice

so er m it 's it 's all smooth connection say on e r operation of the the flight which we de- have in say from hongkong to japan

are you going to to appoint er [org38] airlines as handing also

and this

in japan

again

are you going to appoint e r [org38] airlines as a handing agent for you in japan as well

yes yes

cos this is e r

yes

a bit away i mean yeah

and

tell you tell you someth- that that it 's it 's a very good relationship actually how come the the relationship is so tight because those people which are working now for [org2] are ex

worker with the other firm

yes

so they they are very well keen on the relationship together with them and it it helps tremendously

uhu

sometimes particully if you want to have i do n't know a v- very quick transfer on trucks or whatever it helps very good an d we have a very good reputation in concerning that and er again it 's because of this friendship it it helps tremendously

uhu good

and now er i need to double-check but i 'll let you know e r this additional flight and er i remember from the head i ge- i get a little schedules er in december

mhm

which they update us and i believe it was then the the s- the saturday or either the sunday but i need to double-check for you so an additional flight to tell you honestly tha t our japan flights i explained also to [S7] is that erm a re very successful out of hongkong so sometimes it 's very tough

to get a space at the plane

yeah well yeah especially on the yield

so how many how many er lower decks is on the a three three hundred er three three thirty for the for the cargo six er bellies er for the cargo o r less for the connections as well right now you 're on the backside you 're right

you mea- you mean the ex europe flights makes

hongkong er hongkong tokyo

oh the the tokyo how many flights

hongko- hongkong

mhm

e r

no how many pallets per er er er does fit on a on on a eight three thirties

in the three thirties three thirties

xxx xx did n't know what they 've e r

three thirties yeah yeah

between hongkong and japan right

yeah

okay h- how many positions you keep for for cargo

i believe it was three three

three for for cargo

lower lower deck pallets

mhm

the the pmcs

yah yah yah

so the three eighteen er two forty-four one sixty height those those we can fit in

o kay

but again it 's it 's it 's totally new this route we gon na start as from april

okay okay

again it 's so fresh er this message we received er last week tha t the times i really do n't know yet and that er ag- again i will let you total update of this schedule

[firstname19] just send out a schedule that was for xx

and i give you the configuration of the the tonnage also what we do with japan especially we are controlled by space controllers in hongkong erm we have a fix ed allocation on the osaka route and we trying to get a fix allocation on the tokyo routes also but this is an a a point which we need to discuss first

yeah well

with the dispatcher say in er in hongkong

mhm mhm

but especially if i look to the nether lands there is a demand say to tokyo which well which is pretty fair for this eight three thirty

mhm

and then i 'm talking maybe as a one lower deck pillar this this is for us to fill for that particular flight is it 's okay

yeah yeah

on the freighters we have more capacity but er we notice this is becoming too less but again then they compare the yields again with their own yields which they can make out of china and this is well very high at the moment

mhm

and this this is a point of view i need to discuss with hongkong try to get this better hh because what you say now concerning the rates is i t 's a thing which [org2] will not allow i am sure

mhm

but what 's er your point in that

you mention the

all this

seventy

this is a rate which is

er they trying shipments rates

sorry

[org19] [org20] trying shipment rates you know where they are and so

yah yah i know i know

sure yeah yeah

concerning you know the rates i believe erm within [org2] i t 's maybe a level around one ten is in a point of view

mhm

which they might consider okay this would be an interesting case that we can make a deal or something or whatever er or turnover

apology

yah for sure

would be higher or whatever that i maybe can convince them to lower it but erm they are pretty strict

mhm

in this level of rates

yeah i mean i mean you go down if you get cargo for sure i mean er

specially the

yeah

especially we er we have kind of big projects which is actually a four years contract or e- even higher duration of this contract e r it 's a stream of cargoes which is particully fulfilled each flight around the forty to fifty per cent

and this is an unique deal and

be fore

they do n't want to jeopardize this kind of deals

and then

for sure xxxxx

why should you why should you

china

yeah and then within china a lot of stations they have their local allocation on those flights also because hh again you know china also mainland china to japan this is a

mhm

a quite of er good successful route which they can offer

yeah yeah yeah yeah

and all those people are screaming for cargo or for capacity for those flights

and then we as amsterdam we try to come in and always of course with the lower yields try to succeed to get this capacity the strongest point what we convince hongkong is that their loads is more or less its volume so if we can bring in dense cargo which can kill the volume then it will be very interesting for them

that will kill the yields of course

yeah

especially er well we do this er with the bulbs for example it 's more or less yeah well bulbs is quite heavy and then you can kill a lot of volume with it

mhm

sometimes bulbs is even falling too but particully er some bulbs espe cially

how is now er that you rate with the the bulbs because er the base was really really down so i can imagine that e r

each each each year it 's er each each year it 's totally different you know e r depends on the market situation

different yeah

i believe like last year was incredible and then x rates no no i believe it was eighty ninety ninety- five

yeah

for bulbs was er more or less the target of the of the of the rates

xx xxxx

to get good deals in

so it 's incredible

but you know the bulbs like last year was not a good year because of the weather

and also you have two types of bulbs you have the beginning of the season bulbs which are pretty good because they are smaller

mhm

because they take out of the grounds earlier

directly now uhu

so f- it 's it 's er also heavier because er it 's more dense and then the late e r bulbs

it 's already the more

yeah more open wider and er well they get more volume but er well now particular i believe in march everybody starts to open the tenders again of bulbs

yeah yeah yeah

mhm

and then e r we see what happened again and i believe it will be the same scenario as last year i think ratewise and er and tell you honestly last year we missed the bulbs because of the yield again because of the rate we did n't

mhm

well try to match it espe cially er

yeah

it was not necessary or maybe a different word is not not a good solution to to to try to attract this kind of business because anyway those flights out of hongkong were pretty full

some of course

but again i always say you need to generate all kinds of business because you need to spread your risk more i believe no er but er again this this is the the people in in china who makes those decision sometime-

yeah that means you have a daily capacity you can easily go that direction er but if you got only one two three flights per week then you start to offer all of your

mhm

shippers you know i mean

yeah

hh the people which are booking with you huh

uhu but now particular sometimes is is in- interesting so is the salmon maybe salmon traffic is er only yieldwise it 's tremendous under pressure

uhu

specially what i heard is now that [org19] is dumping

oh that 's wild

tremendous incredible rates

mhm

hm but again what er concerning japan it 's er well it 's it 's a good route which we can offer there are two flights actually which are dedicated that means that out of europe we fly actually with an idi- immediate stopover to japan e r i believe it was the thursday freighter out of amsterdam makes a stop dubai hongkong in hongkong turn around shuffle around with the plane and then that 's the dedicated plane also goes to japan

mhm mhm

and we use this plane particular to make sure that we have dedicated pallets to japan

already done xx

this er it 's er well it takes saves some hours of course of transit

well it is quite quite strange because the the real product between china and japan is always very difficult to understand it it ja pan is er booking through er european offices

mhm

they 're always asking for direct flights but e r there are really not interested on try shipments you know and you just told me now that they are building up nice relations so it 's really difficult to understand those people you know hh

mhm

believe me i know this situation already a couple of ye ars of understanding those people

yah forgetting them

you need to er

but i start to learn it believe me

it 's the only chance you have

no but now come back er like [org23] and [org2] if you look to tho - to those well different even cultures even er mentalities well it 's a world of difference

absolutely

you know e r mainland china people well to to especially you the old generation it 's e r quite difficult to understand sometimes from our point of view

mhm

and what sometimes i believe that we as european people maybe are open we are open in in understanding try to understand the people but the other way aro und i 'm talking about old gene ration

yeah yeah

if you look now to the new generation managers like also hh like [firstname17] [firstname17] [lastname17] i believe he he is

yah but it 's

okay he he is a you know try to understand

mhm

our thoughts our mentalities our our things of how things going and he he tries to open himself for that and that i i believe that is good they need to do it because especially you know the main problem in china is first of all is the language

yah

this is a a a major problem especially in mainland china because if you call a station there nobody talks english

mhm

hongkong luckywise where er [org2] is er everybody even speak better english than i do because it 's a former british colony

that 's it

and that 's the total difference you see now a lot of people from hongkong try to move over and now also er a lot of danger is that you see that a lot of foreign companies coming to china and they try to pick up people from [org2] from [org23] and buy them in in there

mhm

and this er this is going on now very rapidly this is well erm

yeah but that 's the way it is i mean er i fully agree the the philosophy from from from [org2] er as hongkong-based airline as well

mhm

is er more westernized and more standard whereas [org23]

mhm

as a traditional chinese airlines erm

yah

hm hh you know yeah sometimes it 's it 's er hard to give them e r or make them understand that they there is a word called service

yah

cos that 's the way it is it that 's the way it has been and that 's the way it will be and er if you do n't accept this this is your problem that 's the way they think sometimes

mhm

hh instead of reacting to e r certain issues i mean the best example is the handling in shanghai

mhm

one staff control it and the problems would have gone but er this is will they will never understand this

mhm

yeah but erm yah people like [firstname17] are coming more and more he is a very good example for this one and er i think erm give it five ten years more time then at least this a southern belt erm is is pure fully developed

yah yah

well

hone- honestly speaking you know erm if you er i 'm i 'm not saying this because i work for [org2]

really but erm suppose that [org23] was stronger in service e rm like an [org39] if they were very good in service and

mhm

in e r well bringing it bring it up to your customers in in a good decent way or whatever all those things

mhm

which they missed now is maybe an advantage which we can have here because we er i am talking concerning then er [org2] because we can offer with the lo cal people maybe the status trying to to get this offer and service which they can not do at this moment and this this is

i would be careful to add [org39] to this list cos i think if you could reach the service of [org37]

mhm

you would make a big step forward

yeah okay well

cos [org39] is [S7] correct me but if

you know er still still

kind of service er

mhm

yeah but i mean depends on the people er to the people we are talking to we we have

uhu

we are we have the fortune that we have contacts in beijing which

yah

work tremendous good e rm if you look at our relations

but that but that

that 's different

that 's that 's a problem you know if you do n't know the right person

that 's that 's always

well and that 's that 's er but al ways you know it 's it 's

yeah

in china it 's a personal business you have to know the people you have to

yes

have the titles you have to have

yes but

talk to this person if you do n't talk to one certain person you will never make the business

uhu

yeah and if you do n't know who that is then you can talk to e r er a president of a company but he is not the decision maker if it 's hhh er within export club so and then this is why you why you need to ha- to have a chinese culture so erm

yeah does does you know [org37] you know pretty well huh you know er [firstname19] [firstname19] [lastname19] he wa- he was the former he became regional manager i believe of western europe

mhm

but he used to be stationed in frankfurt

mhm

then to scandinavia n and now we 're back to frankfurt

mhm

this guy you you wo n't believe it it i- it 's a chinese but he does n't act like a chinese this is

okay

but

i mean you have to have a real good reputation in the market as well regarding x and everything and then it 's really out of the roots from them xx

no but that 's that 's a brilliant person really

mhm

comparison to other airlines

er this this person believe me i 've laughed with him incredible parties and er well incredible nice person

he is really enjoying his time overseas and take the best out of it

hh you mentioned also australia on long run

yes australia sorry er to be so rude

australian is a a goal to be opened also as a station erm pure served also by freighters erm we have a sort of master plan which is er a plan up to two thousand and seven and within this plan our goal is to open this route also er to australia destination we already analyzing and trying to er investigate okay which would be the preferred destination hh so in destination i can not say yet which destination hh but what i can say is that we are trying to have this in the beginning of the year two thousand and five er again as a new opportunity for [org2] e r as a new freighter destination i already explained to [S7] also we maybe even open it earlier but again it 's er i can not promise any thing because that 's still in in investigation zone but i know hongkong they are very desperately already e r to have this route in place because erm a lot of demand especially again out of er china to australia

is a good scenario for them but again from out of europe i belie ve it 's also a very good opportunity to have especially if i i already investigate say my part e r let 's say er from out of netherlands but it 's a good destination

what is what is your outcome what do you think is is a year to australia you can can achieve

i checked this i believe something like eight months ago and at that time er i inv- investigate brisbane sydney

mhm

those destinations a nd in turnover er which we could generate was pretty good especially why because [org12] e r at that time had a good solution and well some others which could do via via whatever hh a nd with the market situation er i believe rates came up around one te n to even one sixty in that average rating

that 's i mean in that average yeah

were the rating levels at that time and i am talking about

one ten to one sixty

yeah and they were

that 's realistic

there were airlines lower but there were airlines higher

mhm

but i i tell you on purpose it was an er well a guideline average which i just explained to you now and er if you look and concern this to the rates which are nowadays say in the existing routes to the let 's say the far east it 's a well a good opportunity to bring up your average of yields

i mean anyway fo r for [org2] it 's er everything beyond hongkong is fill-up from europe

yah

in xxx rates are so tremendously high i thinks from hongkong the rate to sydney is what in average two euro

i do n't know i really do n't know but

one euro eighty

erm yah

yah i think it 's it 's quite high still hh so erm the only question you have is how can i fill my plane up to hongkong with the best possible yield if i fly then to to osaka or to sydney or to hh xiamen fo r where do is er where is still the best margin on it

mhm

uhu you know particully i recognized from er you know i talking to to asians

normally i would

er within the netherlands

mhm

and they all say from okay there must be more competition on this route er particular i am talking about amsterdam er from okay that we can choose maybe a different carrier to choose to this kind of destination and this er well i al- again translate this of course to hongkong and its er ve ry er optimistic from okay this is gon na be the route but again i believe they will try to get this in quicker than what we have in the master plan but again it depends also on the deliveries of the planes a nd you know [org2] they we are very rapidately but in a good method we are searching for planes but again they are like the dutch we are very keen on money

and the chinese the chinese are even more keen on moneys they er want to

as you know we have a lot of dutch in the company and we work a lot with chinese so no worries er hhh for understanding you

o h

i say i say i 'm dutch myself so er i can say it as a dutch guy

dutch particully we are famous about moneys i believe

we er i forgot one point

huh

we are a swiss company

mhm

er so for money no no need to discuss with us

no but i say it 's a sort of habit you know the

yeah

they say that 's it 's a saying in holland that er we do n't have savings but under the bed we have a lot of er money in the sock but i checked my sock lately but

yeah

no moneys

no but er well there is particular saying i say that 's the english word there is also the dutch treat you know that they say you pay actually

mhm

it 's a it 's a saying in english er hh but again if if i have some more information about australia

then just let us know yeah

then er

i will let you know er immediately

yah

actually we had our management meeting meeting

yeah

last er december and this this was one of our point of discussion also and more pressurize from out of europe because we want to add this on our portefeuille from er hey look this is an additional value which going add especially if you look to the average we can bring up our average yields if you come to this port we we can try to succeed in that sce- scenario to lift up our average yields again and that 's already tough in nowadays to bring those in

yah absolutely hh

to tell you something totally different now i 'm talking erm to let you know as [org2] we are more mature that means that e r well you know more or less our situation er in the beginning they start up er hh e r we were growing and growing and now as from november we off ering

our agents or our customers er particular in the netherlands an express project well in the beginning [firstname13] and [firstname15] we thought okay nice thing again something we can a dd an added value towards our customers hh and we thought well this would be something and maybe it will be a success but now we are running this already for well since november so almost three months and it 's an unique success so far it 's now already ten per cent of our er total revenue gathered say in a particular segment of a flight and this is er well i just want to let you know why because if you have an occasion er which you maybe not but i just again let you know e r with a very late delivery you still can deliver cargoes to us but because of this we have a higher rate in place of course

mhm

i will give you a copy of it also a nd the only thing the danger is why because again why we do it only in netherlands because we are online here we have the truck in place suppose you have a shipment then the truck and well truck it 's not you can not rely on a truck because well it may be e r delayed again because of traffic whatever but again we are now recognizing er things also that from out of belgium even france even germany some of them they 're using this but again the ri sk for the trucking is for themselves but it gives them the opportunity er to have very late deliveries to tell you the deliveries is that we have three categories it means one hundred and eighty minutes you can drop a whole flight which is in the book we tell everybody you can drop ninety tons

mhm

with a guarantee of space e r for that particular flight but there is a little restriction

because if you come with higher

what surprise surprise yeah

xx euro

if you come with ninety tons and there are more shipments of course booked well e r we can not never ever guarantee you this so this is the the small part behind it i tell you honestly but of course er well it 's impossible to do that but again it 's open in a in a variation of tonnage let 's call it in that way the n we have the one hundred and twenty minutes whi ch is open fo r er palletized say two pallets or i believe three pallets but again i have the version with me and then we have the sixty minutes before departure which is o nly valid say for bulk load so smaller shipments

well again i explain this to you because maybe ever ever that 's gon na happen whatever and you say oh i i want to try a nd i will give you a copy of the rates if you look to the rates i believe they are still pretty fair a nd to give you an example for example dubai above a thousand kilo is ninety-five euro cents

that 's still a bit x

if you compare the service which you get for it it 's okay also one of the particular things is it 's a money-back guarantee so if we screw up or whatever you get the money-back guarantee and this is particular a motivation to use this service but again the time limits are very tight

mhm

and believe me we are doing anything to er to bring this service as a very unique service because we guide the whole process deliveries you get an e r report er well anything but also it 's vice versa it means that at the final destination it 's also a guarantee of one hundred and twenty minute so especially what we notice for especially shanghai for example we have this service also i s that a one hundred and twenty minutes delivery for pickup that we have everything ready for pickup

mhm

i s i believe sometimes for shanghai we ll well it 's it 's it 's okay and some of the people that use it because of this but anyway er i make this notice it 's something separate be- besides a ll the areas which we then discussing today

like hongkong but er again i give you a copy of those rates

mhm okay

and then er see whatever you can do with it

could help

yeah

and again you know erm this in the beginning when we opened to start this idea you see that [org4] has select hundred three hundred five hundred whatever and

yeah

[org21] airlines has

yeah

all those huge package and we try to be extranorinary er thought that we want to keep it simple you know er keep three things er some some guide lines

mhm

and bʊm this will be it and nothing else around it so no complex issues ar ound it so everybody will understand very easily and not from can i choose now this or this or this or blah blah and that 's how we come up with this concept but okay it it it 's some thing you may be can use huh

complete target for you or com- complex target for you should be to finish your lunch

if we let him

xx xx

i organized you another coffee have your lunch now xxx

those are the the rulings

mhm

now there it 's it 's just particular maybe you do n't use it

okay

whatever but it 's it 's something you know that 's maybe an added value

if you maybe i do n't know er you have a shipment and

yah

you are quite tight or you can not get it away or whatever

yeah have a look to it [S7] with e r hongkong xiamen so

yeah shanghai would be but who does handle you in shanghai who is the ground handler there that you can guarantee a hundred twenty xxx

[org40] i guess it 's [org40]

xx x x

thank you

and er xxx you handle over [org40] then

xx er what what

shang hai

the ground handler

e rm

[org40]

i do n't know er [S1] but erm probably

it 's [org40]

sure

i guess so

[org40] is owned by [org41]

yes

yeah then

[org41] is er i think your biggest shareholder so

it 's [org40] no worries about that

to tell you something

yeah

that we had the trucking connections as you know as from last week again i get an total new schedule update so i can do way better better sharper rates

mhm

to various destination within china

mhm

and we did this now er via local trucker which is way cheaper and i tell you honestly it 's half of what we were used to

okay

so i give you an offer like that also er [S7] no

yeah sure sure always i said as soon as there are changes especially limitations for mainland

mhm

surely interested

so everybody aside of e r our visitor who 's er still busy with main lunch dessert is also ready so

feel free and while you are choosing er maybe [S2] has a chance to

yeah

eat something

yeah give him this chance please

yeah i i will not ask questions

you want some or

yeah tell him stories er about soccer or whatever but do n't ask a question and give him the chance to chew and and er and so on

yeah i mean he must be very well prepared because afterwards he is going to [firstname21]

yeah

yeah okay

okay so for with the perish able [org8]

finish your lunch

you need your all your strength your power you can have no no sugar problem so that 's why hh i 'm so concerned yeah

yeah

about that one

do n't worry [S1]

okay

x x x x

erm what i want spoons for the dessert

the re

okay everybody has okay so are they x use [S7]

haeh

are they from use

hhh hhh

hey i mean normally these these er erm special rates like flash or er your product this is more for the [org1] still the direct product cos we are still a console

mhm

we can cho-

scenario yeah but the late delivery can be but erm have a la- late delivery at e rm okay xxx

i mean there may there might be really occasions where you can offer it like i had last week i had a s- ship- spare shipment

m hm

of about two to ns

there

er which has to be had to be delivered quite urgently in shanghai

yeah

so for this sum er yeah sure

but in general

we could do that in in addition

you know that er

we have a lot of experience with sleeping drivers to amsterdam and so on that 's why you have to go for that

yeah

yes

xx xxx

er that 's that 's particular i already mention them

yeah

you know actual- actually it 's built more for the dutch market

yeah sure

because they are online

sure it is

but again you know er we have big intertraders even

mhm

who are using this service daily

why not why not i mean xx from time to time we have these kind of fast jobs for certain clients but we have to just like to offer it and then we have to see how we can can mutualize

yeah

when we can deliver with special trucks maybe or sometimes like that

no i just want to bring it to your attention you know from hey look this i- this is a new thing which [org2] can offer

mhm

yeah it 's good to know e r you never know the things which are developing and also we love to have a market overview cos as you know we are depending on the market overview a lot of on [org1]

mhm

but as you know [org1] is our client as you know

they are our mother company so you know a lot of times hhh the question is what is reality

mhm

if you listen to the market which [ORG1] is telling us and i talk then to the airlines

mhm

i often found huge dis crepancies

mhm

say hey

mhm

let 's say realistic and er for some markets we have realistics for sure in italy er and also with the colleagues in netherlands i mean with [firstname22] [lastname22] you know other erm [firstname23] [lastname23] we know exactly what 's going on we have their own rate sheets and everything else but er some other markets yeah

mhm

hhh you know [org1] is trying to make money on us not on the client so not the way it should be but that 's the way it is

erm i 'm quite surprised [S7] about that it is a well three months we doing this it 's er

mh m

shipments eight ten tons incredible you know er

it 's good to know

the amazing if the is the delivery time no time frame two hours

yeah

especially in in shanghai if hundred twenty minutes that 's

yeah

real good but that you know might be the r- the reason why as well as we- as well in hongkong but you have these that not not that you can deliver it that light but that you deliver in in the final destination so quick

some yeah

yah yah

yeah that might be the reason why cos that 's er one of the major prob lems we also we s-

yah

yeah

we have sometimes xiamen as well we are talking also normal normal transitions and that is twelve hours or something in xiamen until they have it in hand

er that that 's what

and that 's what i told you some some of the people using particully shanghai because of this

yeah

they do but erm

yeah certain i mean if we w- if i would have known that earlier we might have challenged you this week

all in

hh haeh

all in

sure

our own time-definite door-to-door

m hm

pro duct but there is a huge impact then especially on the destination as you mentioned hongkong and shanghai

mhm

yeah

and in xiamen as well

but to xiamen we do n't have all in we do n't yah yah but in to xiamen we do n't have the all-in product as you know we have only three destinations hh

when you think of the famous customer

yeah tokyo and er hongkong shanghai

yeah

so keep e rm [S7] updated with this possibility yeah

surely

tell you something what we did in amsterdam i s that when we er try to exposure this into the market again ajax we had a very big we had one hundred and fifty-eight people er all agents from the dutch er

mhm

well community of agents and er we invited them all in the ajax stadium the amsterdam arena hh er we gave them a a very small presentation we hired e r some chinese people who dressed up like a dragon

and then

they were going through the stadium like that

sounds familiar

mhm wherever i go chinese er in negotiation or whatever

dragon 's dance dragonses erm some some er sometimes play in time

what 's

it gets getting bored yeah

oh no it was funny you know those those people it wa- it was a lounge which we hired in the stadium

mhm

i believe the lounge wa s maybe ten times the size of this in the length

okay

the width was well i believe the same it was very long and this dragon goes through this lounge

with they had those drums

yeah

very hard drums but then at the end they need to go through the exit but we had a different lounge you know all if you got out the exit all the other people of the stadium they come in

mhm

yeah

so you can imagine this dragon goes out this lounge which we had the opening goes downstairs with the stairs and all those people walking going to those seats

running behind the dragon and the dragon they made so much fun out of it they went through the whole stadium like that

with the drums

great

er this this was actually the biggest nicest thing about this er new er new opening which we had for his er project

great

still a lot of people talking about this that running around through the stadium like that you know not not in the lounge where it should be the kick-off of this new project but er

yeah that was a good one i remember when er [org4] was doing in october this er together with [firstname15] this big er we go to shanghai and er they invited everybody as well hh erm they arranged at this er chinese restaurant in this e r belonged next to the next to e r the the main station

both oh

just five minutes from the station

at a b- ah at a boat at a boat yeah yeah

yeah the chinese boat yeah hh and then erm firstly you saw the movie the video of the first flight all you see is the dragon dance around the plane yeah and then er everybody was still standing we have the coffees to er and then they start with the dragon dance in natural yeah it was er seeing twice all the time and erm yeah i said sometimes it 's getting a little bored but it 's quite interesting if you to see it the first time

it must be nice

e r okay

if you do it in this e r er ambiente as you have done it yeah it 's a little bit different as well

no i get i got bored actually you know that if you look to the dragon itself was er

yeah

and actually er if you know how much money we paid it were eight eight eight of those little chinese guys er in in the suit and then er

i- if you ever look for a job i think our con tro lling could be a good idea for you yeah i think er you have the right correct abilities yeah just let me know

yah no but for the rest it it was nice because then all the asians they er we watched the er the game which was ajax er celta de vigo

yeah okay yeah

mhm

and this was er well it was quite unique

yeah

and the ni cest thing that they won that game because sometimes if we have those presentations

then if they lose you know particully after wards the motivation is w:ff is down

yea h

er it depends

you get what xxxxx

yah it depends

which which agents you have

yah okay but well more less if you invite the dutch

yeah

you know er with with soccer games in the neighborhood of amsterdam

yah then

more or less they are ajax

yah

more or less there are some exceptions but er i- it gives a a lot of you know if if they lose you know the for example if you have after wards you have a drink whatever a nd if the game is bad whatever everybody leaves within thirty minutes

mhm

that 's normal

but if it 's a brilliant game and they win okay everybody stays a little longer for a drink

mhm

it 's normal so that 's why you also never invite er then german and dutch together if they play er ajax against munich or something

yah yah

yah

of course but

at the end of the day it will be the biggest fun at all yeah

yeah

yah yah er

no matter who is winning but i think is the czech republic you have more fun la- in in future

well

tell you know er personally i 'm not well i 'm a soccer fan because i like the game but er in holland i do n't really have a team which i prefer you know i 'm lately but er i 'm typical you know er then i find really i f- for example i f- find real madrid typical team which i prefer now but that 's personally mine opinion

but it 's more because

he is born in madrid so

but that 's personal but it could be next year it could be different because

yeah cos we 're having xxx

so if you really want to develop japan

i would invite

[S8]

[S8] if ajax plays real madrid i think there you could make some real big point

uhu

but gentlemen you have maybe more questions also concerning ja pan or

well i tell you we have to really to see er schedulewi se connection transit times hongko- er europe hongkong japan summer table for that something

okay

again i i will update like all the others with the schedule

we handle no

mhm

and then er er you get a more view concerning our japan but well actually

i mean

about japan it 's it 's it 's it 's quite easy within [org2] because er the only destination by freighters then i s is osaka

yeah

and again we can serve osaka with e r this this freighter but with then the connections like the well the other destinations e r but again by truck the connection

yeah

well the problematic is the the high capacities ri- right now in the market so with the alt er nate that 's the problem the ma- major problem you know

mhm

but e r as soon as er these get er ti ght is a good solution as well of course

uhu

are you are you maybe open for discussion er er like

you do n't know

what i explain with er or talk with [S3] also to give me maybe a a hint concerning the rate but this this seventy i believe is

yah that 's this was already and e r then we could do something on the market hh but to be honest the rates you you have mentioned erm are available

this this

on direct flights [org30] er [org29] and all of these hh so i think er there is no

mhm

possibility for a steady business

mhm

this would be only the same argumentation we had in before for hongkong if we have to open a b service and we have to go to [org1] with a rate which is better but they have then the local rates of eighty eighty-five cents with er the [org21] airlines with the [org33]

mhm

locally and you know we need this fifteen twenty cents add-on for our ground network for handling for transfer rate erm so with seventy i would have seen maybe a chance but erm with higher for transhipment it 's it will be tricky to to launch it and erm

yah

but what i would certainly would e r what i wanted to say before is hh erm if you can erm for the flight schedules

yah

do you still have real flight schedules cos you never know yah and if you wou- could send us two three four flight schedules so that everybody can have one on the desk what are your destinations when are you leaving when are you going we know the schedule from from amsterdam from the freighters hh but you never know sometimes we have this five kilogram parcel which has to move

yeah

and we 're looking for an alternative so

yeah absolutely i will update you

yeah if you can send something

update with er well the schedule of course and er

yeah

explain some some more details concerning the er well the inland the trucking situation all these things more like what i explained to [S3] we have a same summamary list

mhm

concerning trucking duration well just name it all the information

m hm

what might be from interest cos we some times a request on ad hoc if you use your trucking service hiroshima sapporo

yeah but i think that they do n't have a regular do you have regular also

yah

we use

yah

yah we just just to let you know we had an online station also hiroshima that was also a flight but

mhm

er with the new plans that tokyo is gon na be open they closed our hiroshima office and moved those people o r gave them the opportunity to go to the tokyo office

mhm

why they 're centralizing more the japan er offices into not to have everywhere er [org2] people

no but i mean er trucking should be kind of expensive no because er tokyo hiroshima is more than thousand kilometers away so er

yeah but that 's that 's particully because the destination is maybe better served er and the demand is maybe higher that 's why they choose for this particular destination this

mhm

but again deci- decision made in hongkong

mhm

but hiroshima of course we we can offer that by truck also as well

[S8] they said that we have sometimes some requests

x i know i know

and er it 's always tricky er sapporo especially e r i remember still my time i ooph i was always had to look who is doing it

yah it 's al so

er who is not doing it which size you can do and e r if you have this you know nobody if you have it on your desk you have everything already on your desk er and then you look and you will call the airline which we have on your desk no matter if it 's ten cents or fifteen cents higher cos you have a solution al ready yeah that 's what i mean if you can give us the goods and prices e r would be would be from your benefit at the end of the day maybe

yeah yeah okay i understand

yah

you 've maybe have your business card then er i add

it would be the first

e r i come i come back

er say to the email then i put you well all together i put the email and make a

yeah

big long email

all right

and then er each header will be assigned to these personal

what er what i will do or what [S6] will do later we will send you the new contact list who is in charge for which traffic lanes for our department

yah

also for [firstname5] still

okay

yeah so that you really know whom to talk for what yah

no er i wish it will be a good er good opportunity to learn each other especially in the japan because er it could be something i believe so

it 's a good first strategy so

especially you know japan is is within [org2] they a re so focusing on on that area and er i believe even for in the future that 's gon na be anyway to the year to that 's also a point sorry i come back i did n't discuss in the master plan the two thousand seven when we have ten freighters in place all our freighter routes will be daily so also the japan is the case the scenario they gon na operate a daily flight i hope amsterdam also but

yeah

they can not because of the tuesday it 's er

there will be the choice between the monday and the tuesday for you

hh okay if you do n't have any more questions

er i want to thank you all

same to you

to listen to me

thanks for your visit [S2] you 're always welcome yah and er hh yah send us the things we discussed within today

okay

and then er we will look into and erm i think

e- even you need to do me one favor er [S1] try to er i was not joking about the the soccer player that

he was already x x x

no no i i 'm not playing soccer

but no as i said er give me give me some details er in there and i will give to our known

it 's it 's not a must but it 's

yeah

i believe you know er with the the partnerships which we have within [org2]

yeah

you should be one er say in this team there must be one of you guys in this team

yeah

but this you should address more to these people cos they are always saying on the weekends i have no time i 'm i am er the one who has the most time hh hh [S2] was offering to come on a sunday to amsterdam to watch a play game of am- ajax

let me let me

to watch or to to to watch to play

no really play it 's active

that 's to watch what i told you is some thing very special that is a play game he is organizing this is for one

okay

no it 's er it 's really true on the

but for this

on the twenty-sixth of march er i make a selection er we gon na play against lucky ajax you call it lucky ajax ex- er it started to exist that old former ajax players e r were put in a team like e r [firstname25] [lastname25]

m hm

he plays in this team er [firstname3] [lastname3] maybe you do n't know a small dark guy e r [firstname2] [lastname2] well i can name many of them but they play in this team

that 's great

and we arranged a game against them on the twenty-sixth what i 'm doing now try to er look in my summamary of customers of list and try to make a good selection but i t- i t- i try to make a good team not a

well

er afterwards okay

yeah

but i want to make er a good reputation of this i want to

[firstname26] or where

yeah

you see the cups there so he gave xxx some teams

so what i was what i was asking actually was er well one of you must play somewhere in a league or whatever

[firstname26] yeah maybe he is goalkeeper

[firstname26] is pretty good you know i saw him last year when from the soccer game

yeah

to give you an impression i already have five players which all played i n a first league e r say almost close to the professional leagues that

oh yeah

and those we already selected now well

mhm

those kind of players

we are trying

should address to [firstname26]

to select

yeah

now what what i 'm you know i 'm i 'm i 'm not so er not good at football or not play- not good at playing football and never have been baseball basketball something like that yeah soccer

if i would be a good soccer player i would not stand in this office today

no but if if one of you guys know somebody or yourself whatever just let me know

give it to [firstname8] and xx

yeah we tho- thought already about [firstname26]

yes

yes he was playing on on on the in the soccer team of er [org5]

he 's playing also in a regular team

yeah

x xx xx x

no no first league luxembourg first league but national i think

yeah you know it 's it 's already difficult enough for me because i try to select sixteen people

mhm

and er well some of them maybe play first but some thi rd whatever but

uhu

er well i try to to come up with a a strong team of course be cause what [S1] say already you know those people they are pretty old and er they do n't walk they only er v: v: v: and er

no but

you you you start running after the ball and that

that 's okay

but er well it 's fun you know er we make a total day of it and er we we we probably start er around six in the evening or fi ve something like that and then afterwards we have a party we invite more customers and whatever but again i believe one of you should be in this team no

well

yeah we give it to to the people we know that they are er quite well soccer players

mhm

what about girls

[S1] x a girl

well well

[firstname27]

well you ma- you make you make a joke about a girl i te- i tell you i met i played

no no it was not really a joke we ha- we are with within this er [org1] tournament we have also always woman teams

you know er

yah

in playing in a tournament in atlanta and er we were short of one man

and suddenly a lady er she played there indoors and er we saw this er lady er play she was eighteen something and i could n't believe it it 's er she was better than

some of our guys in our team

to to be honest there might be even a chance i 'm not pretty sure but but it think er one of our colleagues in frankfurt

a girl from brazil or

knows e r one of the girls from the er frankfurt e r

national

oh okay

from the frankfurt women 's club

mhm

and the frankfurt women 's club is fifty per cent of the national team and they are the the world champions

mhm

so e r

but this this young lady also in atlanta she played in the the national team of the united states so she was er her mother came from sweden and her father was an american so if you mix this together well er wow but er

american sportsgeist plus swedish tactics yah so

no but er er that was incredible also her condition you know the incredible hh you know erm the the games that we play in atl anta was also er pretty high it was e r next to a mountain blah blah blah i do n't know the name but

mhm

the air er when we played the game y ou get very tired very

yah

quick

uhu

and she she played four or five games in a row

and we were twenty minutes in and then er

we need to get the next beer but because er well wow

but again er well if if one of you let me know a name or two names or whatever i do n't know just let me know

mhm

then i try to er to get then a program invitation mhm

yah i think it 's er going up attractive for those people which wan na play against old famous er guys xxx xx

mhm

and that 's for sure

yeah [firstname26] would love to

yah for sure

for sure

i forward the name

why not yeah it 's a good idea thank you very much

okay

hh so [firstname21] is on the way back from the restaurant so we leave his lunch here erm he he will give a call he should be ten minutes okay yah then erm you can see [firstname21]

okay

for you perishables and beaujolais and all these dutch cargo typical dutch yah erm

okay er just my very last question n- no more questions to the se hand over to [org2] whatever well i think i i totally erm may be clear and whatever it 's more or less my homework which i need to do now send you all the updates

yeah

and e r i try to finish this all before friday so you get this update in respect of [org2] and any time you can call me day and night except i sleep at night

but er you can call me any time er for any questions whatever and i try e rm to give you more ideas about [org2] we we have more people in place now also we are growing and er hh er we are more dedi cating people to certain areas and i try to dedicate certain peoples also fo r [org1] that we more frequently give you calls because i believe this is a an er good close relationship build -up if you do it in that way because you know you need to trust each other

mhm

and friend ship is e r maybe a part of it and er if you can build in that way together something then er it would be very nice to do it in that way

yeah

and nowadays it is already very difficult because er

no time

cargo is not er no actually it 's for sale cargo you need to buy it nowadays and er we can try to succeed to come up together to build something like that er would be very good successfully huh

absolutely

and important is that your people talk to those people

yah

i mean

yah

we can talk whenever but on the day to day business they know

yah

yah okay but that that 's

what kind of cargo they have on their hand and they have er the full trust from my side as well

yah

but that this this this is my point of view [S1] we

at all

as [org2] our office we are more gon na frequently call you more from maybe just for a chat hey [S1] er everything okay whatever but and of course we we try to ask for er

yeah yeah

i think think we

er any cargo maybe for hand for whatever but more frequently we have this discussion

day and night

i believe this is way better to do so and not er particully what i menti- or last year actually was that we more less maybe waited too long sometimes from our point of view [S1] i say that but er it 's a must we need to do it in that way and again this all because of [org2] again is going bi- getting bigger and bigger and bigger hh and this is a a tough year to be for [org2] but er again er thank you

thanks to you yes

you 're welcome xxx

for your person my time that er you 're willing to see me and e r have this chat

also thank you for recording it

we we have a part-timer e r working also together it 's e r

mhm

you have the schoo- i don- it 's it 's in a certain particular school er direction to the logistics a nd they 're all in the fourth or the third year and then they may- make this kind of conversation record it also and make a well an er a repo rt or whatever and we need together with their teacher we need to give them er well a figure from okay

mhm

how did they do it what they learn or whatever

mhm

and this is particular what we do each year with them and now we have actually two of them in place hh but it 's very handy for us it 's first of all it 's cheaper

there was something

to have those kind of people but er well it 's er hard-working people because they are willing to work any kinds of things and they are still

very eager

yeah

to learn anything

and this is good

you 're not not looking for a job or something no

i mean just as an idea

well sometimes i talk with [firstname13] my boss i say i 'm one of the cheapest salesman i believe

yeah you know the tax in luxembourg

yeah the tax er in luxembourg is er well

less than twenty per cent if you are married children

some old colleagues of mine live in luxembourg and i already had this discussion many times with them from hey [S2] come up to luxembourg so i know exactly

okay a little bit more booking reservation than you do today but erm i 'm looking for somebody so one of these three will leave so e r i have to replace

well okay always e r interesting in that kind

keep it keep it in mind so if [firstname12] is not giving you what you want er let me know

you know first first of all i 'm a very happy in the work situation which i am now at the moment but you know my major problem i s my wife and the wife is let 's say an particular dutch farmer lady

who is outside the door is already too far

m hm okay

so to convince her in a

to move away

to to go to any place in the world i i got jobs offered in los angeles a nd car house anything

mhm

erm you just name it but er no and that 's particula r yah well if if i was a a single whatever no problem but er it 's not the case [S1]

well that 's the way to become a single but this is something difference and i will not talk about that one yeah so e r

no no

your decision

no it will well

okay hh yeah well everything else will now depend as [S3] has said it very correctly rates and schedules this is important thing and then we can can look deeper in the one or the other matter yah surly when australia is coming er to be e rm alive let us know there is surly something we can can look into same is the munich issue i think er as soon as you plan munich we can see if we can arrange something maybe in frankfurt with the german colleagues together

okay

directly to tackle it that way erm and hongkong yah we wait for your offer and then we see what we can do with e r the colleagues in scandinavia so er do n't expect it to start next week but

mhm

we keep you definitely posted about this one

okay

yah surely and then the rest whatever comes along we can talk about it and this was always a philosophy we had both of us and i think it 's the best way to do it

mhm okay

yeah

okay thanks

so thanks for your visit give my best regards to [firstname12]

no problem at all

yah

it was a tough landing in luxembourg

yeah

i guess so yeah with the wind

ooph it

i saw some planes coming in er shaking

i really yeah well it 's the fokker fifty

yeah

it was really er not joking it was really er like this and then

mhm

like this the litreal er like this

and well i have flown in my life many flights but this was er

tough landing well again

i never had a smooth landing with a fokker fifty

does n't make it fun

to be honest yeah it 's what gives

as a new plane

do n't know what it 's it 's not an aircraft it 's a

no i do n't i do n't like i do n't enjoy the

xxx

mhm with the jumbolino or wi- even with the saabs i feel more comfortable than with the fokker fifty

er maybe in ten years they are all gone the fokkers you know the spare parts and stuff they they dedicated say in amsterdam some of them they still make but for the rest er

just wait if it takes ten years er if city hoppers er will then called [org30] city or whatever i mean yeah and then they have er some other aircrafts er very fast

correct

yeah

er that 's that 's that 's the future i believe you know you see that a lot of airlines they e r say they 're well forcing together and you see then at the end of the of the whole thing that you get major big air lines that they are under one flag they are trying to operate whatever and this is becoming more and more trendy

it 's the only way to do it

and it 's getting only only huger and huger but this this is on passenger size you know that now you see nowadays that they try to do this is cargo side but this is so complex that

passenger is ea- er is easy cos you have always

correct

two way

yeah

yeah who wants to fly somewhere is coming back but the cargo is is very tricky but

you know er my my time when i work for [org3] tha t at that time [org3] thought they had made a very smart deal with [org42] [org42] they should be there let 's say the gsa o f europe for the cargo side well

yeah

they did n't work at all because er the administration of it this is i- so complex to feed in to both administrations it is impossible to do so it could be possible but then there would be

then [org3] [org3] did it now with er [org30] [org3] is vanish

yah

completely also you go to cargo side

yeah

so there there they make it

uhu

and i expect that [org30] and [org4] will do the same even mo re

they say they will not but of course everybody thinks it 's gon na happen well well

yea h

yah

i think the brand name [org30] and the brand name [org4] will vanish and it will be called the the the [org43] airlines or er i do n't know what yeah and then

you know er all the dutch they say well this is again er something national which we believe is locally which we have in in our country

yah

which is gon na disappear slightly from our country again

or it will be named [org4] in the netherlands but in the rest of europe it will be [org30]

yah right

can also be very easy

right

yeah

hh now for me more important is er what er will be the new regulations from faa and tsa within the next two three years cos er

mhm

if i see it correctly at the i see the cargo vanishing from the passenger flights on the long run

mhm

one more attack one more plane falling down

mhm

i think this will be and then er airlines like [org26] like [org2] which are really concentrated on cargo

yah

have a big er benefit against these [org29] and er [org30] as well really concentrated on th- on the passenger side

mhm

yah

yah this will be a big boost

yah

yah but erm hh

but you know they experience that they can try it and that this is maybe a a good spoi- point they might have but again if er well i i used to work i start on the airport when i started in the in the cargo with [org44] then [org44] got bankrupt then [org3] took over our company [org44] then

mhm

that time but always when companies take over each other there 's always a fight first of all the positions and then the relationship between the people because you always get two sides

yah

one side the former company and on the other side is the new company and thi- this is not ni- it is not nice

it takes long time i mean look to er the same we have in the forwarding industry [org45] [org7] [org46] how long did it take er [org7] and [org46] to come together

yeah

yeah but they managed better than expected no

what

okay

just between us

yah the we are in front of a interesting time in our business let 's go let 's go

[S1] one question

yah

er can i borrow your chauffeur later on again he drops me at the airport

it 's er er arranged for three o'clock already

yes i know erm if you let me go next door i want to go to my old colleague if you if it 's okay er

yah fine for us erm and then

yeah then i visit her quickly and then i be here i do n't know my flight leaves at sixteen twenty so i need to be an hour in advantace for for departure

yeah but but erm [firstname21] is just wack bay way back from the restaurant yeah so er you wanted to see him as well

mhm

so he will give a call within the next ten minutes we will be in his office

okay

yeah so feel free er whom do you want to to see

[firstname21] [firstname21]

[firstname21] and

er for the rest i think i

you have done ah okay yeah [firstname21] is not not back yet we 're waiting for his call

mhm

o h okay okay

yeah if this is what

because i believe now i covered say the areas

yeah we are finished here just as at the end of day we just have to cover now five minutes fo r

yeah

mhm

wait for [firstname21] or you can already move yourself upstairs to say hello to [firstname28]

yeah

or whatever you want

well actually er so she behind if i- it 's okay with you otherwise i do it with [firstname21] first

yeah

but [firstname21] he did n't give er a an an timing

no till you get in

no but if you if you er that 's why i 'm asking whom you want to see [firstname29] or er

no a colleague of him

[firstname21] no [firstname21]

a colleague

a colleague of him he wants also to look at him

okay

the way he said not [firstname21]

yah that 's why i mixed up

which is working i s- i suppose it 's working here on the air port too

yeah

[firstname21] yeah there [firstname21] [firstname21] [firstname21] [lastname21]

he is talking about [firstname21] [lastname21]

no you

yah

a h okay i i mix it now i mix it i 'm sorry i 'm sorry

yah yah i was that 's why i 'm asking who wants do you wants to see who m

yeah and he is talking about [firstname21] and [firstname21] is just on the way back from the airport

er i thought you were

er from the restau rant yeah and he 's not next door he is upstairs

okay

next to us

okay

did you did you had a ring with you already or no no [firstname21] no

i had him on the phone er and then i catch him on the restaurant

that now

and

that

so he should be back in five minutes

if you give me twenty minutes for example tha t i come later after twenty minutes then i have my meeting with [firstname21] and the n after [firstname21] the discussion will you drop me off anyone they drop me at the airport at that time

yeah [firstname30] will pick you up at [firstname21] 's office

yeah

ah okay

directly

okay perfect

yeah if there 's nobody else you want to see yeah if you if you want to see somebody in the americas or whatever you 're just have to to to let me know what er

i will walk through and see who i can see er xxx

okay feel free

okay

yah and erm yeah [firstname21] will be as i said five ten minutes

because i believe we covered all the regions yeah

yah

yeah yeah

from e r

yeah absolutely

like like [firstname6] [firstname6] for example she is not covering any more

india and she 's the one who er catches the phones somebody has to do that from all of us

okay

nobody is in the office otherwise yah

okay

okay then i let you go

okay

then er

mhm

i want to say again thank you and then e r see you next time

okay perfect

all right

then i only need your visit card if you have one available

yah maybe you can five minutes break

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https://arche.acdh.oeaw.ac.at/api/171762
https://arche.acdh.oeaw.ac.at/api/171762
https://id.acdh.oeaw.ac.at/voice/voice3-0
voice.xsl

Researchers – VOICE 3.0 XML	Hans Christian Breuer Ruth Osimk-Teasdale Hannes Pirker Marie-Luise Pitzl Stefanie Riegler Daniel Schopper Barbara Seidlhofer Omar Siam Daniel Stoxreiter
Founding director	Barbara Seidlhofer
Principal investigators VOICE 3.0	Marie-Luise Pitzl Daniel Schopper
Researchers	Angelika Breiteneder Hans-Christian Breuer Nora Dorn Theresa Klimpfinger Stefan Majewski Ruth Osimk-Teasdale Hannes Pirker Marie-Luise Pitzl Michael Radeka Stefanie Riegler Barbara Seidlhofer Omar Siam Daniel Stoxreiter
recording	R3
Publikation	Austrian Academy of SciencesUniversity of Vienna
Datenbeschreibung	2004-01-13 Portable minidisc recorder with electret condenser stereo microphone recording R3
Datenverarbeitung	Domain professional business Speech Event Type meeting Used to mark a stretch of speech commonly preceded and followed by a pause or by a change of speaker. A u is, however, not required to be bounded by a pause or a change of speaker, nor does it represent a turn in a conversation analytic sense. At a minimum, a u is some phonetic production or noise made by a given speaker or a group of speakers. Used to mark a pause either between or within utterances. Used without dur attribute to indicate a brief pause up to half a second. Used to mark lengthening of sounds and intonation (fall, rise). The following type attributes are used to mark: lengthening lengthened sounds intonation a significant change in intonation, marked with the following function attribute for: fall falling intonation rise rising intonation Intonation may or may not coincide with syntactic boundaries. Used to mark contextual information relevant to the understanding of the interaction or the interaction as such. The voice:desc attribute provides a short prose description of the contextual event. Used with different type attributes to mark: type overlap overlaps type onomatopoeia onomatopoeic sounds type ipa transcriptions in the international phonetic alphabet Used to mark text supplied by the transcriber because the original is unintelligible or needed to be anonymized. The reason attribute is used to mark: unintelligible unintelligible speech anonymization anonymized speech Used to mark laughter and other speaker noises and non-verbal feedback. speaker_noise coughing nods shakes head smacks lips sniffs swallows whistles wordlike laughing Used to mark speech which is stressed or emphasized in a way that goes beyond regular nuclear stress. Used to mark the point at which some paralinguistic feature changes. The following attribute values are used to mark: voice voice quality imitating laugh neutral phone reading reading_aloud sigh singing whisp yawning tempo speed of utterance a accelerando l lento neutral neutral loud loudness f neutral p Used to mark speech which cannot be transcribed with certainty, because it is difficult to hear or understand for the transcriber. Used to mark other-continuation, i.e. whenever a speaker continues another speaker's u without a pause. Other-continuation is to be interpreted temporally and does not relate to form or content of the speakers' utterances. Used to mark a word or phrase as belonging to some language other than English. The following values for the type attribute are used to mark: L1 the speaker's first language LN a language other than the speaker's first language LQ a language where it cannot be ascertained whether it is the speaker's first or other language. Whenever possible, the voice:translation attribute provides a rough translation of the non-English speech into English. Used to mark lexical forms (tokens), but also word fragments, onomatopoeic noises, spelling and breathing. For laughter see vocal. For pauses see pause. w is used with ana and lemma attributes to mark its part-of-speech and lemma. The ana attribute may contain more than one reference if different interpretations are possible. w is used with join to indicate different part-of-speech categories for contracted forms like isn't, don't, etc. w is used with part if tags for indicating spoken mark-up (like lenghthening, overlaps, etc.) occur in the middle of words. Since tokenization into w elements was first added in VOICE 3.0 XML the number given in this automatic token count differs slightly from the number of words specified elsewhere in corpus header and text headers. Used to mark points where a short portion of speech has not been recorded or has been left untranscribed, whether for editorial reasons, as part of the sampling practice, or because the material is inaudible or comprises sensitive content. The following reason attributes are used to mark: not_recorded Not recorded speech not_transcribed Not transcribed speech Further information on the reason for a gap is provided within the voice:desc attribute. Used to mark a pronunciation variation or coinage as described in the VOICE mark-up conventions [2.1].the VOICE mark-up conventions [2.1]. An existing word corresponding to the PVC may be provided within a commentcomment attribute within the voice:pvcvoice:pvc element. Additional phonetic transcription may be provided within a voice:ipavoice:ipa attribute within the voice:pvcvoice:pvc element. Used to mark the beginning of a new audio track used in transcription (usually three minutes in length) and thus refers to the audio recording of the transcribed speech event. Used to mark speech directed towards a particular speaker. The whowho attribute indicates the addressed speaker.
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